D-Link Forums
The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => Routers / COVR => DGL-4500 => Topic started by: torano on June 19, 2010, 02:39:02 PM
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Hi. I have to have my 4500 in our basement, so I get horrible wireless reception in our house. Is there a recommended extender? Perhaps this? http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=416
Wondering which of the three antennas I would replace it with?
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I have this one:
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=545 (http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=545)
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Good call. That one works great on wireless NIC's. It can function on a router but the antenae are the same stock ones that come on the router. But its awsome if your signal issue is from a deadzone since you can move the location of where your capturing or broadcasting the signal.
Now if you actually want to increase the amount of signal the router is broadcasting, try this the product below. Keep in mind, this may sacrifice your routers ability to use N, and it will certianly stop if from using the 5mhz range, so if either of your laptops are N, don't use. Chances are though your network isn't even using N, and if not, you cant beat the price and ability.
6$ reconditioned on Newegg
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=416
Or you actually want a repeater, theres:
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=741
But I wouldnt suggest it. A, it got bad reviews, and B, the setup is not for the novice. Last point, these were all Dlink products, because of forum rules, but theres other options out there. Check out Newegg and Tigerdirect.
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So for this one, http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=416, looks like it plugs into one of the three antenna connectors. Which is used in the case of the 4500?
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Ya, you'll have to find the antenna connector on the 4500 that is broadcasting the mode your using. If mixed you'll probably have to pick the best one for the signal and mode your using.
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Hmm ok. I'm running G only. Any idea which that is? Just ordered from newegg, but now I wonder if it'll actually work. This 4500 has the antennas setup that way for a reason.
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I wish I was home I could tell you...LOL. At a friends for dinner. I was running N mode only and I did this, un plug all of the connected antennas and connect one antenna to each of the connectors and watch your signal on the PC. You'll notice it comes back and the signal goes up, then you'll have found the one you need. I think it's either on the in the middle or the once closest to the power jack in back...I think. ::)
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Interesting. So the router doesn't even use all three?
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I don't think so in single mode...I could be wrong
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Unless you have adapters capable of Wifi-N theres no point in putting it in Mixed. It can actually cause issues. I don't think any particular antenae does a certian wireless type.
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Unless you have adapters capable of Wifi-N theres no point in putting it in Mixed. It can actually cause issues. I don't think any particular antenae does a certian wireless type.
Yep, I run single mode G - no mixed. Will just try hooking it up to the center antenna first and see what happens. :)
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Let us know how it goes and what works. ;)
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I believe each antenna is capable of Omni-directional MIMO, hence why they are still compatible with singular antenna designs. The reason it needs three antenna is to split the connection within multiple channels along the channel width decided by the host? Each antenna can only atune to a set amount of freq. so they use mult to allow a broader range for the input/out rate. Just to test it, I disconnected one of the antenna, and my connections still works fine. I guess you could always just buy three too. Would still be cheaper then the adapter.
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Guys it's not working out well so far. I really need to know which of the three antenna I should replace with this one. Do I remove all of them? Or just one?
The problem is, I don't seem to gain anything with the antenna.
Edit: I don't think this extender is compatible with the 4500. Good that it was only $6 + shipping. Bad that the 4500 gives me horrible range in my tiny 1400 sq. foot ranch. :(
Edit2: Never mentioned that I'm running FW 1.22NA. Maybe that's part of the problem. However, I have disabled "Short GI" and "Extra Wireless Protection". Seems to be helping a bit on wireless range - or maybe it's just a coincidence with something else.
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What wireless mode are you running. Mixed or single?
I would try each connection and see if you get any better range. Leave the other antennas connected.
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Single mode G.
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well single mode G at 2.4Ghz should be getting you great signal and range. I might try shifting the channel and the transmisstion rate...see if auto 20/40 or just 20 works better. For 1800 sq ft, it should be getting all over. I've got 2200Sq ft here. Are there any other WiFi in the area?
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well single mode G at 2.4Ghz should be getting you great signal and range. I might try shifting the channel and the transmisstion rate...see if auto 20/40 or just 20 works better. For 1800 sq ft, it should be getting all over. I've got 2200Sq ft here. Are there any other WiFi in the area?
Yeah there are a bunch of others - mix of N and G. However, I have picked channel 2, which is out of the way of the others by 4+ channels. In the router options, should I select "auto scan channels" (or whatever it' s called")?
I'll see if I can find the transmission rate, but the two options I mentioned a few posts up seemed to help also.
Now... to figure out the best way to use that damn extender antenna. :)
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You could deselect that auto channel scan and see if that helps any, will have to run thru and see if any of them helps pick up the signal any. IF you have other WiFi in the area, could be interference. Happens. >:( Let us know how it goes.
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Honestly I just want an answer from d-link tech support on this. They should be able to tell me how to use the range extender I purchased (made by d-link) with the 4500 (made by d-link). Sent a note to tech support but not sure if/when I'll get a response.
Edit: Gah, didn't mean that to seem unappreciative of your help so far. :) Sorry.
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No worries bud...just hope I can help and understand your frustration. Might send a PM to the moderator on here and see if you can get any more answers. I know, tech support is the greatest. ::)
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i use three of Hawking Tech's High Gain Antenna's
Link is = http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=58&ProdID=214 (http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=58&ProdID=214)
I find that the antenna's the DGL-4500 came with to be just barely cutting it, so i threw these on, AWESOME performance, works with 5Ghz, no signal loss with new updates, very happy with investment!
As for the three radio's, they are identical radio's broadcasting in unison, the reason for the three radio's is to ease the load per radio, since one radio trying to communicate with 8+ computers simultaneously is impossible. The radio's do not broadcast individual 802.11 modes, i have debunked this my self, N seemed to be on one, then wait a minute it's on another.
For some reason i am having an issue with my Blackberry 8530, it seems to think my DGL-4500 is a Charter Communication Hotspot... ? WTF?
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Well I will take ownership of this one, since I was the one who told you to buy it. It worked great on my 4300, so I assumed it would work on a 4500, and while it still might, I shouldnt have made that assumption with my accurate testing, and I am sorry.
Now lets get down to buisness:
Hardware
DGL-4500 A2 with 1.22NA
DWL-AG530 driver 5.3.0.46
Network Configuration
802.11G Only at 2.4Ghz
Auto Channel Scan on
Transmission Rate - Best
WPA2-PSK with AES
WMM Enabled
Short GI On
Extra Wireless Protection Off
DWL-AG530 all settings set to default.
Location
The router is located about 10-12 feet above the adapter, directly under it, but with a brick wall (the front of my house on the first floor) next to the wireless desktop.
Results
Using the Status > Wireless page for a semi accurate Signal % I get around 80-90%. This does change quite frequently too, whether that normal or not, I do not know. For the sake of this test, we will call the antenna closest to the power cord A, the one in the middle B, and the one furthest from the power cord C. The first thing I did was remove all the antennae and was surprised I still got a signal of 17%. Then when I put in C, it went to 24. I unscrewed C and just screwed in B, and got about the same. I then unscrewed B and screwed in A, and it jumped to about 70-72%. I unscrewed A and just screwed in B and C and got about 40-45%. And with A and C, it was still around 70%.
Hypothetical
So I think Antenna A(closest to the power cord) is the domminent broadcaster while in G. With maybe radio assist from C? Where my question is, when does NIMO go into effect? Theres no setting to turn it on or off, so I assume its always on? But if the connection can still be active with one antenna, maybe it adjusts automatically? Because I don't see how you can get NIMO with one antenna.
Suggestions
Put the extender closest to the power cord. Also try enabling and disabling the Short GI and the Extra wireless protection. Also, if you have Android OS phone, download a free app called "WiFiScan". Not only does it tell you your channel, it gives you a portable platform with a DB read out on signal strength, which is great for finding the best place for a antenna on the receiving end. It also helps in the orientation of the antenna. I laptop will do as well, just don't pay any attention to the bars, since they are not accurate at all.
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Not at all your fault. It was a good suggestion and one that I actually mentioned in the OP. I agree with your recommendations, however I have Short GI off which gives me better reception.
Overall, with the external antenna I get about 48% signal and max 24 Mbps (usually 12) about 40 feet away from the router - this is through multiple walls and up a floor. Without the antenna I get about 30% signal, so it does help. I'm assuming that if I got two more, the signal would be around 65%. However that won't be happening as the one is ugly enough. :)
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Well you could do what I did, duck tape them to the side(inside) of the closest door next to my work desk. You could also intergrate them into a picture frame. Way I see it, you have 5 choices.
1. Increase router dBi
2. Increase client dBi and/or size.
3. Decrease distance from router to clients
4. Run RJ45
5. Increase freq. of wireless
Each have their pro and cons. When it comes to networks its: price, performance, elegance. Pick two. You might want to look into what industrial options you have. But thats not going to be cheap. You might also consider getting a 3G router. Call your Cell provider and see what they have. Dlink offers the DIR-450. It all depends on your budget.
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Looked at my hardware version and it's rev A2. I remember reading about version A, that they are not ideal. Is that the culprit?
Also, what percentage error rate is acceptable for wireless? Currently I'm getting a 2.5-4% error rate.
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Well there is no revision B, I don't think. Just A1 and A2, but someone correct me if I am wrong. And I think A1 was the one with problems with the 1.22, so your in the clear. Plus, I doabt there was any major change between the two. And antenna configuration would be a major change. Could just be they changed the color of the lights. LOL
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Quick update. Things seem to be better and more stable overall. I *think* this is due to the combo of two things:
Auto Channel Scan on
Short GI off
I put the antenna extender into the port next to the power per Trikein's advice. Seems to be working out so far!
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First, glad things are better. Second, thats actually interesting. As I understand it, Short Guard Interval (GI) is the process of attaching a buffer that includes all data obtained from a antenna before and after a single transmission is incorporated into that transmission timeslot. Its kind like saying "over" on a walkie talkie. Each person knows not to talk until they here "over". Except with this, its a little bit different, because sometimes something important is said after the "over" so a long GI assumes it a echo if its within a certain timeframe.
In reality, what this means is it allows better separation of channels and individual broadcasts on a single channel in trade off with performance. If turning short GI helps, that means your having problem with echo, interference, and overall wireless signal problems. Is there alot of networks in your area? Also..have your tried moving the network somewhere else? Maybe to a friends house and just try out the range there? Maybe theres a Cell phone tower near by or something that is messing with your wireless signal. Just a thought.
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First, glad things are better. Second, thats actually interesting. As I understand it, Short Guard Interval (GI) is the process of attaching a buffer that includes all data obtained from a antenna before and after a single transmission is incorporated into that transmission timeslot. Its kind like saying "over" on a walkie talkie. Each person knows not to talk until they here "over". Except with this, its a little bit different, because sometimes something important is said after the "over" so a long GI assumes it a echo if its within a certain timeframe.
In reality, what this means is it allows better separation of channels and individual broadcasts on a single channel in trade off with performance. If turning short GI helps, that means your having problem with echo, interference, and overall wireless signal problems. Is there alot of networks in your area? Also..have your tried moving the network somewhere else? Maybe to a friends house and just try out the range there? Maybe theres a Cell phone tower near by or something that is messing with your wireless signal. Just a thought.
That *is* interesting. I had no idea that's what it was. I need to try turning it back on again. When I was experimenting, I didn't take the time to evaluate each setting for an extended period. I will try turning it back on again. I don't have a ton of networks around me - maybe 3 within decent signal range.
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Well I have this feeling there is something with your house's walls or structure that is causing more reflection? Its like calling out in a dark cave, the sound echos around a lot because there is alot of hard surfaces that don't adsorb the energy, and a lot of odd angels that make it bounce around. Maybe something simular is going on in your house? Could be as simple as the drywall in your house. Thats why I am saying it may be a good idea to bring your laptop and router with you next time you go on vacation or something. Just to test what kind of range it gets someplace else. If it gets alot better, then you know its something with your environment. Sure you might not get online, but you don't need to, just need to see the signal levels. Thats what I would do..but then again I am a huge nerd.
By the way..RF tech is reallllllly out there. I don't know how you HAM radio guys do it. Hats off to you.
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RF is acutally easier than you think. ;D
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I would have much less of a problem if I could somehow locate my wireless router on the main floor instead of the basement. I know that is part of the issue.
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Any chance of getting on the main floor?
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Any chance of getting on the main floor?
I think I need a repeater. If I move this to the main floor (will have to be other end of the house), then the basement will suffer a poor wireless connection. That is where I have a couple game systems connected wirelessly. Ugh.
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Do you have a cement basement? If so, that would explain it. The major ingredient in most cement is Tricalcium silicate which makes the basement like a echo chamber.
Also, Furry, it depends on how deep were talking. I don't mean basic 802.11. I mean 1st or 2nd layer. The different antenna types and their standards. The different effects of electro magnetic energy in general. The circuitry. The raw science under it. I don't even know enough to know how much I don't know, but I major it's alot. When I see a 40 page website with charts, circuitry diagrams, and words I have never even SEEN before, I know I am not in Kansas anymore. Its those times I love though. Heh!
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yes I understand. Spent 6 years in the military working in communications. ;D
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Ok then, thats why your the master. Or maybe a Chief of engineering. Or maybe some combonation of the two. ::grin:: Though I still claim it is very complicated. Maybe your just used to miltary spec gear so this stuff we use is child's play in comparsion, but the adverage person has no idea how a wirless router even work. Even Cisco training doesn't teach you alot of the theory behind the practice, just how to use it and how to fix it.
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Well I started out on a C.B radio then working my way into some HAM radio. I liked it so much I figured, lets see if the military can teach me more. Sure learned alot.
Ya, theory is the most boring thing to learn, however. Comes in REAL handy in practice. ;D
Just think of it as early IM Chat. LOL. I miss those days, was much less hassle thats for sure.