D-Link Forums
The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => Routers / COVR => DGL-4500 => Topic started by: Maverick494 on August 28, 2010, 12:17:22 PM
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I have clearwire and as much as I would love to blame this on them, I can't. I have two separate modems that are connected to the same tower. On the one that is connected to the DGL-4500 I get ping times to www.yahoo.com from 95-300MS, with the average about 180-190 MS. On the direct connect modem to the same computer I get ping times of 70-90 MS with the average being 85ms. Jitter is about 30 to 100 on the DGL-4500 connection and 8-15 on the direct connect.
I just don't get this. Why would this supposed gaming router cause such issues with my ping time? Yea I know clearwire isn't the best for gaming anyway, but that is what I can afford at the moment and even with a 90 ms ping to most servers I could do ok.
I have tried everything I can think of in the settings to fix this issue. Anyone have any ideas? I am on the verge of spending $150 on the cisco E3000.
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Do these clearwire modems over internal routers? I worked with one couple of years ago and can't remember if they did or not. If they do, DSL sees the same issue. Your dealing with 2 routers and 2 translations and processing has to be done more than it should be. To resolve this, and use all the features of the 4500, you have to bridge the clear wire modem to the 4500. Most times you need to call the ISP and have them help you do this. This in effect turns off the modems internal router and just acts as a stand alone modem only, handing off the public ip address that your probably not seeing on the 4500. It begins with a 2 digit number and not 192.169.#.#. If this is the case and they can bridge the modem, you should be good to go. If you can't get it bridged, see if the modem has a DMZ and put the 4500 on the modems DMZ. At any rate, like you said wireless internet is not the best for gaming. It's possible that you might see the same issue with other routers. Let us know how it goes.
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Ok never mind if you read my last reply. I found a guide to bridging (semi) this particular modem. Hopefully that will help pings.
Update: Pings are still 180-300.
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What firmware version is currently loaded on the 4500? I presume cables are good between modem and router? You are testing a wired PC to the 4500 and not wireless? Whats SEMI mean for the modem?
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Clearwire modems cannot be fully bridged at this time, all you can do is http://austexvoip.com/clear-wimax/clear-wimax-modem-semi-bridge-setup. The cables are all good. Firmware version 1.23NA (probably shouldn't have done this but I was/am frustrated).
My pings are still horrible.
here are some example tracert's:
Tracing route to any-fp.wa1.b.yahoo.com [72.30.2.43]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 4 ms 95 ms 5 ms 192.168.15.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 135 ms 93 ms 99 ms 10.41.164.197
4 87 ms 84 ms 119 ms 64.13.115.205
5 99 ms 101 ms 115 ms six.yahoo.com [206.81.80.98]
6 225 ms 204 ms 203 ms ae-0.pat1.sjc.yahoo.com [216.115.100.95]
7 224 ms 204 ms 203 ms ae-0-d220.msr1.sk1.yahoo.com [216.115.106.137]
8 123 ms 204 ms 124 ms te-9-1.bas-k2.sk1.yahoo.com [68.180.160.15]
9 225 ms 204 ms 205 ms ir1.fp.vip.sk1.yahoo.com [72.30.2.43]
Trace complete.
Tracing route to any-fp.wa1.b.yahoo.com [72.30.2.43]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 2 ms 2 ms 3 ms 192.168.15.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 230 ms 921 ms 101 ms 10.41.164.197
4 128 ms 101 ms 58 ms 64.13.115.205
5 128 ms 203 ms 102 ms six.yahoo.com [206.81.80.98]
6 124 ms 203 ms 204 ms ae-0.pat1.sjc.yahoo.com [216.115.100.95]
7 123 ms 920 ms 203 ms ae-0-d230.msr2.sk1.yahoo.com [216.115.106.141]
8 225 ms 204 ms 204 ms te-8-1.bas-k1.sk1.yahoo.com [68.180.160.9]
9 226 ms 203 ms 203 ms ir1.fp.vip.sk1.yahoo.com [72.30.2.43]
Trace complete.
I included the first one because about 20% of the time I am seeing 90+ ms pings to the WiMax modem through the router.
I forgot to answer your question about how I am testing:
I am have tested using Home WiMax modem only wired, USB WiMax modem, Home WiMax modem + router wireless, Home WiMax modem+VOIP box+Router wireless.
Tracert with USB WiMax modem from same place in the house (there is only one tower for clear in my area so its the same tower):
Tracing route to any-fp.wa1.b.yahoo.com [72.30.2.43]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 * * * Request timed out.
2 54 ms 99 ms 94 ms 10.41.164.193
3 77 ms 109 ms 94 ms 64.13.115.205
4 72 ms 84 ms 99 ms six.yahoo.com [206.81.80.98]
5 167 ms 119 ms 129 ms ae-0.pat1.sjc.yahoo.com [216.115.100.95]
6 146 ms 149 ms 159 ms ae-0-d230.msr2.sk1.yahoo.com [216.115.106.141]
7 142 ms 113 ms 94 ms te-8-1.bas-k2.sk1.yahoo.com [68.180.160.11]
8 137 ms 159 ms 179 ms ir1.fp.vip.sk1.yahoo.com [72.30.2.43]
Trace complete.
Not saying this is good by any means, but it is a heck of a lot better than the previous one.
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I just got off the phone with my ISP and we did everything short of changing out the modem to eliminate network latency issues from their end. I am now getting 70-90ms pings consistently to www.yahoo.com when wired to the modem. www.speedtest.net was showing nothing higher than 165 ms and most was 90-110 ms ping with speeds of 4-8 mbps.
I re-attached the router and I immediately shot up to 225 ms ping on speedtest.net
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I decided to see what would happen if I put my PC into the DMZ on the DGL-4500.... Then I realized, I haven't tested this wired to the router.
Lo and Behold, wired to the router ping speeds are almost identical to being straight wired to the modem. So this issue is PURELY on the wireless side of the router.
I run an Intel 6300N wifi card. I am at a loss to explain this piss poor performance on the wireless side of this router.
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This tears it for me. The wireless performance on this router is unacceptable. So unacceptable that I won't even try and sell this thing for a steep loss. You can't even stream a youtube video at 720P over the wifi on this.
D-link almost had me sold that they were a serious competitor in this market, but I'll go back to Cisco/Linksys now thanks. At least there you know you are going to get a router that either works like a champ or is an RMA, but not this half-assed thing that D-link has put out in the DGL-4500.
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Please wait, resolving www.yahoo.com....
Resolved to 72.30.2.43.
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 128 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 226 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 93 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 103 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 103 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 106 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 98 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 89 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 137 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 85 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 91 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 105 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 111 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 94 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 86 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 111 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 99 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 99 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 104 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 105 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 84 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 93 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 93 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 98 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 100 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 86 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 102 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 102 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 96 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 105 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 106 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 83 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 101 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 100 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 102 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 100 milliseconds. TTL = 55
Response from 72.30.2.43 received in 95 milliseconds. TTL = 55
User stopped
Pings sent: 37
Pings received: 37
Pings lost: 0 (0% loss)
Shortest ping time (in milliseconds): 83
Longest ping time (in milliseconds): 226
Average ping time (in milliseconds): 103
even the ping test from the router itself is acceptable.
now for the one from my PC running wirelessly.
Pinging www.yahoo.com [72.30.2.43] with 32 bytes of dat
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=154ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=106ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=199ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=120ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=142ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=186ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=209ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=231ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=150ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=172ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=194ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=216ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=238ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=157ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=180ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=113ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=90ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=86ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=94ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=102ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=219ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=241ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=161ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=183ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=205ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=226ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=146ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=171ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=190ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=213ms TTL=55
Reply from 72.30.2.43: bytes=32 time=195ms TTL=55
Ping statistics for 72.30.2.43:
Packets: Sent = 37, Received = 37, Lost = 0 (0% los
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 82ms, Maximum = 241ms, Average = 158ms
there is a 55ms ping increase average for running wireless and that is just unacceptable.
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What wireless mode and band are you using? Give G mode only at 2.4Ghz a try.
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I did G mode only, no change. It was actually a bit worse. I did N only (which I cannot do all the time since I have a G only printer). No change. I am always on 2.4GHZ too because my wife has an Ipod touch and an Iphone and the printer will only do 2.4GHZ
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The issue isn't wireless performance of the router. This board is filled with people, including me, who see great performance. The issue is likely interference in your area or something this is causing latency with what ever channel of what ever band of what ever radio your are using. Also, if you had no latency going straight to your modem, and the latency was only on the first hop why did you call your ISP? This isn't meant as a rant, just as a reminder so you can focus on the actual cause of the problem.
If you want to test it, try removing the network from the environment. Bring it to work or somewhere there is little or no interference from cell phone, other networks, wireless printers, microwaves, etc. Any thing that uses a strong electrical current has the possibility of creating a strong EM field. Then from there, connect wireless to the router (no internet connection needed) and try your ping test. Fiddle with it until you get a decent latency (wireless will always be a good amount higher then wired) then return the network to its native environment.
Last, don't mistake latency with throughput. Just because you have high latency, doesn't mean that is the cause of your throughput problem. Also, what tests, short of how well you can stream youtube videos, to determine throughput?
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The issue is exactly wireless performance in this case. I have proved the wired side works fine. I have proven that the direct wired WiMax modem works fine. There was no phone (cell or cordless and my cordless is a 6GHZ band) in the room at the time. So the only thing that could even come close to interfering is the WiMax modem operating in the 2.5 GHZ range, but that is nearly impossible due to the frequency spread between the two.
I have no throughput issues. I get fine download speeds and my upload speeds are within norms. That doesn't translate well to gaming. World of Warcraft shows a 406 ms ping when I run through the router wireless, when I run wired I get about 180-200 ms to the same server. So if that isn't a wireless issue I really don't know what is.
The cause of the problem is not even able to be indicated at the moment. I have a symptom, but no cause or I could fix it. I even went as far as to format my laptop to ensure that the ping is not a laptop issue. I am still in the process of reinstalling drivers.
So while I am very happy for you and all the lucky users that get good performance, I do not.
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Tracing route to any-fp.wa1.b.yahoo.com [72.30.2.43]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 212 ms 67 ms 169 ms mywimax [192.168.15.1]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 76 ms 108 ms 88 ms 10.41.164.197
4 109 ms 68 ms 79 ms 64.13.115.205
5 62 ms 68 ms 88 ms six.yahoo.com [206.81.80.98]
6 90 ms 118 ms 129 ms ae-0.pat1.sjc.yahoo.com [216.115.100.95]
7 171 ms 109 ms 148 ms ae-1-d410.msr2.sk1.yahoo.com [216.115.106.157]
8 95 ms 128 ms 149 ms te-9-1.bas-k1.sk1.yahoo.com [68.180.160.13]
9 85 ms 124 ms 129 ms www.yahoo.com [72.30.2.43]
Trace complete.
that is right now.... notice the first hop from the router to the modem. That is borked. There should never ever be a ping more than a single ms or perhaps maybe 3 between your router and your modem. Something is very not right there. The cables are good because I have swapped all of them around and used them to tracert to verify.
Wireless Statistics
Sent : 1426788
TX Packets Dropped : 9660
Received : 935851
RX Packets Dropped : 3326
Errors : 877
That also doesn't look good to me. Why is my wireless dropping packets like they are a hot car? sure if you work out the percentage its not a high percentage, but pair it with that tracert and something smells of bad router.
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You sound logical and I respect that, so I will treat this issue with equal respect. I do not mean to say you do not have a problem, I just think your focus is better suited on environment then on hardware. While it very well good be configuration (of either the router or PC) before I start getting into some very complex conditions that can lead to above normal wireless latency, I need to remove other perimeters first.
But if you wish to look at a traceroute, we can do that do. The first hop should be from your computer to the router. The next should be from your router to the WiMax modem. The 3rd is between your modem and the WiMax backhaul. The 4th is between the backhaul to the next LOS Transmitter. 5th is to your ISP. 6th is to their backbone. 7 and up are not relevent. Let me know if this is not correct. I am not a expert, nor is anyone here I doabt, on WiMax networking. As for the missed router missing the 2nd hop, it still routed correctly. It just didn't respond to that request from ICMP traffic. There is a known bug with how the 4500 handles ICMP but it does not effect performance.
As for latency equating to lag in WoW that is not accurate. Yes, high latency CAN mean lag, but that doesn't mean it does. Not all traffic is equal on the internet. I can tell you I have personally had Ping rates of 400-500ms with no noticeable lag. I would be much more concerned with the dropped packets, specially that high. That still brings us back back to the possible cause, and I believe that to be environmental effects on the wireless performance. If this can't be eliminated I can still attempt to troubleshoot the problem, but get ready for a long session of trial and error, because that leaves a lot of unknown elements.
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what environmental effects do you think there are? I am sitting 7 feet from the router, the only other transmitting devices in the room are my bluetooth mouse and the WiMax modem. Thats it. Pretty hard for there to be an environmental factor. Are you telling me that my bluetooth mouse is causing these issues because it is on the same band. That would be pretty much impossible, and I can test it by turning it off. the WiMax modem is on the 2.5 Ghz band and should provide no interference for a band that is 100+ MHZ lower.
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What I am saying is something is causing latency in the wireless connection right? Its unlikly to be hardware since many many others have been able to game on the wireless with little or no problem. So that leaves configuration and surrounding (enviromental, what ever you want to call it) effects. Configuration envolves alot of trial and error. Enviromental is more straight forward, you keep the exsisting configuration and hardware, and you change the environment and see if the problem continues. When trouble shooting a unknown like this, you have to be methodical, since this is most likly not going to be a basic answer. If we make assumptions on the cause were probably not going to find a answer. Yes, it could be the mouse or the modem, or some cell phone tower, or someones CB radio near by, or heck, space rays from mars, I don't know. All unlikly yes, but if the problem was likly, you would have most likly found a solution by now. :-)
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Holy **** Tricky there are some young people (such as me) don't go scaring me with some crazy things such as space rays from mars. Omg How can I block these space rays from mars? The things you can't see are the things that will kill you!
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Chris
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LOL. Theres no space rays. I was making a point that so many different things can effect wireless issues. Think of wireless being like sound. You have the pitch and the loudness. Your talking to your friend in a busy cafteria. Not only do people close to you drown out his voice, but people far away. Also people voices can sound lower or higher depending on where they are. How the sound waves bounce around, how loud there talking, the sound of people walking, and so on. Stop a moment and listen right now..notice how much noise is there that you didn't even notice? (Most likly anyway) And you can HEAR sound, you can't hear or see wireless interference. Most routers and adapters are pretty good at cutting through the interference, and sometimes there isn't alot of interference, but the point is it is really complicated.
Overall do I think think its a enviroment effect? Im split about 70/30 for enviromental. But even if its enviromental, you can still adapt the configuration of the wireless to overcome. But thats how I troubleshoot, I cut to the core of the issue, and try to rule out big chunks of possibilities before narrowing down on the specifics.
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Yea tricky I was just being fooling around. But yea the environment in were you place your router can make a toll on the routers wireless performance. But many people will get mad and disagree with you because that is not what they want to hear. There should be others solution? Oh keep up the good work guys.
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Chris
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Well he has a right to be skeptical. Most likly his previous wireless routers didn't have such issues. So it is likly how the router is handling those enviromental effects, but before we can work around them, we have to know what they are, and before we look for what they are, it helps to know for sure there ARE enviromental effects so were not wasting our time. Make sense?
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Environmental had nothing to do with it. I was right it was a hardware issue. Luckily it was not a hardware issue with the router. Since I only ever had my laptop to test with until my wife finally let me try hers I couldn't compare another wireless connection. Her wireless connection to the router seemed to work fine. I was at a loss to explain that. So I was pretty ticked at that point and I formatted my laptop as mentioned. For the last 24 hours the connection speed has been acceptable and the ping (latency) has been much better. I am using the driver that came with the laptop for my Intel 6300N, 13.0.0.107 is the version number. Intel is up to 13.1.5 or something like that now. Usually that means there have been a lot of improvements, in this case it completely destroys the ping for some reason. I don't know what intel did or what Sager did that makes upgrading the driver disastrous, but I will keep using this stock driver until the cows come home if it keeps my latency the way it is now.
I still don't like the amount of errors and dropped packets from the wireless connection, but if it ain't broke I am not going to try and figure out what it is doing that. I also still get that strange 90+ ms ping on the hop from router to WiMax modem from time to time, but I suppose that will work itself out in the long run.
C:\Windows\system32>tracert -d www.yahoo.com
Tracing route to any-fp.wa1.b.yahoo.com [72.30.2.43
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 4 ms 94 ms 192.168.15.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 91 ms 94 ms 88 ms 10.41.164.197
4 86 ms 108 ms 134 ms 64.13.115.205
5 97 ms 103 ms 109 ms 206.81.80.98
6 87 ms 129 ms 143 ms 216.115.110.42
7 93 ms 109 ms 110 ms 216.115.106.157
8 84 ms 129 ms 98 ms 68.180.160.9
9 122 ms 102 ms 103 ms 72.30.2.43
Trace complete.
all in all much better. still a bit higher than I am used to from a wired broadband service, but pretty good considering it is 4G.
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I have the exact same issue with mine. I'm still not sure what is causing it. Wireless works fine for a few days then after a couple days of leaving the comp on.. it starts having increased latency when the wireless connection is under minimal load.
I can usually resolve this by disabling and re enabling my 5100 AGN but it's still a hassle to have to "fix" this every few days. My old DGL-4300 never had issues like this in the exact same house and placed at the exact same spot.
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Glad you figured it out. My only reason I was pushing environment is well..I am hundred of miles away trying to troubleshoot a issue by proxy. You have the advantage of knowing what the house looks like, knowing your hardware, the history and the depth of the symptoms, and so on. When troubleshooting a issue that complex its all about isolating the symptom, then eliminating certain conditions until the underlying problem is dissolved, the symptoms go away, and then you can back trace what the original cause was.
Also, you never proved environmental factors had nothing to do with it, since different hardware can have different antenna's, drivers, and configurations which can make them immune to such things. Its a moot point now though.
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guys i am not related to this model of d-link but i have also the same problem of ping. ihave d-link modem and model no. is DSL-502T and i play gore an online shooting game. my ping was 160 in it but now it has suddenly increased to 500 to 600 for last 4 days and when i call the ISP the guy who was on the phone said he dont know more about the ping . I live in India .can u help me in getting back my ping to 160 plz send me a private mail plz because i am new on this forum or mail me at rishabhrocksking58@yahoo.com
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Sorry, your reply is off topic. Latency to the gateway is COMPLETLY different then latency to a game server. We would need alot more info. At the very least start your own topic. Thanks