D-Link Forums
The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => Routers / COVR => DGL-4500 => Topic started by: XS on September 08, 2011, 12:05:19 PM
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Okay since, there is no place to put this on here I created this thread on this forum, hopefully it's okay.
All right I have been noticing line quality issues since switching to Cox cable where my ping and jitter increase 10-15ms at peak times. However I want to make sure my end is good too. So I started looking around at my my cabling.
Please see this thread for specifics: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26220927-AZ-What-are-the-minimum-download-speeds-and-acceptable-jitter- (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26220927-AZ-What-are-the-minimum-download-speeds-and-acceptable-jitter-)
I know that when you terminate an end of a CAT5e cable that you should not untwist a twisted pair more than .5" to avoid line quality/reduced speed issues. I also know that the least amount splices the better.
With that being said, all my network wires are ran from one panel to different rooms and are terminated to a H628 DATA HUB. This type of data hub makes it very difficult to follow the .5" guideline since the 110 punch block is vertical. I am wondering why even use this? All this accomplishes is extra splices, cables and patch cords.
For example: I hope its not too confusing to follow...
Cable modem>3ft patch cord>Female data hub>110 punch block>female wall outlet> 10' patch cord>router.
My Xbox is directly wired to my router with 10' patch cord so it ends there however my PC continues on like this:
Router>10' patch cord>Female wall outlet>110 punch block>1ft patch cord>female data hub>110 punch block>female wall outlet>patch cord to PC
I know its hard to follow but why use a data hub in the panel?
I think it makes more sense not even use the data hub and just terminate a couple of the runs with RJ45 connectors in the panel to remove a few splices, like this:
Cable modem>male spliced cat5e cable>female wall outlet>10' patch cord>router= Removed 2 connection points to router.
Now to PC:
Router>10' patch cord>Female wall outlet>male terminated end>to female terminate end>Female wall out let>patch cord to PC= removed 2 connections for a total of 4 to my PC path.
I know I probably lost you guys but If I removed the data hub out of the equation, would this really help any or am I just being anal here and wasting my time and money???
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First, do you even have a DGL-4500?
Second, yes, this is hard to fallow without visuals.
3rd, this is more the job for the installer of your system. I assume your house came pre-wired? Can you contact your construction chief?
4th, you need to rule out ISP. Go direct from PC to modem for a day or so and run Pingplotter. Then if all is well at the location, move it to the next hop in the chain of your network until you experience the problem. Slow and painful yes, but decently accurate.
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Yes I have a DGL-4500 router, Furry stated just to post it here, see the OT discussion thread. My bad if I misinterpreted.
As for installer, don't let me get started, lets just say 75% of the time I have something professional installed I end up redoing all their professional work.
There really is no issue with how the cabling is ran from a builders stand point, this is how structured wiring is supposed to be wired so I have no argument. I am just a perfectionist and trying to make sure my end is top notch. Who knows this may not accomplish anything, hence the thread.
Yeah I was thinking of trying something like #4 already but just wanted to get some input or other ideas first.
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You could save some time running the same tests to the 192.168.100.1 of your cable modem. If your seeing latency or jitter there, then you know for sure its not on Cox end. Keep in mind, if you don't see if with that test, that does NOT mean its on Cox's end for sure. “Absence of proof is not proof of absence.” and all that. If the issue is being cause by some RF issue, then it will only occur when that RF is present.
And BTW, didn't mean to get on your back about the posting. I just saw a huge post and no mention of the 4500. I forgot I have seen you around this forum before.
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No problem Harry, I had a feeling you were thinking to yourself "who is this idiot?", lol.
Yeah I got a help ticket in with Cox and they are sending a tech over Monday. They are not seeing see any connection issues when they connect to my modem remotely.
I am pretty confident my wiring is not the root cause of the peak time line quality issues, but If I can cut down a millisecond or two on my ping or jitter by just re-wiring a couple termination points, its worth it to me.
I will probably just run a long CAT5E cable to my modem to my PC and run some line quality tests and see if there is any difference. I just hate resetting my modem, then my router to get the IP's all straight again.
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Is the line quality/latency issue you're experiencing something new or a recurring issue since you started service? Also, do you live in a free standing house or apartment complex?
Quite often when the field techs muck with the wire closet in an apartment complex, their tinkering invariably impacts the signal strength and quality of other units, especially when different carriers are involved rerouting cables when customers change/cancel service. Numerous environmental impacts can also degrade line quality.
I was a Cox subscriber a number of years back when I lived in Northern Virginia and had a long discussion with a Cox VP (their corporate HQ is in Northern Virginia). A huge issue they were facing was the inconsistent quality of the field tech staff, who were essentially outsourced freelancers with their own equipment and highly variable skill sets. It just took one incompetent technician to mess-up a whole customer subnet.
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Just curious if you have thought about going from CAT 5e to CAT 6?
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It is a single family residence built in 2004. I just switched to Cox a month ago, first 2 weeks, speeds were in spec and line quality (I think) was okay. To be honest I am not sure if speedtest.net is very reliable. If If I uses Cox speed test, everything is blazing fast. I am more concerned with the line quality though.
My wiring is to code but IMHO doesn't make it the best way to do it. The Data hub seems to me like a worthless termination point only to make plug in play easier for techs.
see image of hub:
(http://www.summitsource.com/images/products/OHH628.jpg)
Also see my first post and click on the DSL forums link, it has graphs on my line quality at day time and night time.
Furry,
Not yet, looking at my CAT5E cabling, it appears to be pretty good quality and has been tested up 350MHz so its a tad better than cate5e (little "e") which is rated at 100MHz.
Its supposed to have tighter twisted pairs but who knows probably all smoke and mirrors.
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Hmm, didn't know there was a Big E and a little e difference? I thought there was only Cat5, Cat5e and Cat 6, etc.
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Hmm, didn't know there was a Big E and a little e difference? I thought there was only Cat5, Cat5e and Cat 6, etc.
There's also Cat7 (600 MHz) and Cat7a (1000 MHz). Although, I don't think Cat7a was ratified as a standard yet (??).
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Ya, CAT 7 has't been released and approved yet I don't think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_7_cable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_7_cable)
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Hmm, didn't know there was a Big E and a little e difference? I thought there was only Cat5, Cat5e and Cat 6, etc.
Yep, there is, I really don't think there is difference between a quality cat5e vs a cat5E 350MHz cable.
"Cat 5e is tested over a frequency range of 100 MHz. This is the EIA/TIA standard for Cat 5e.
Cat 5E is tested over a frequency range of 350 MHz or more. This is a greater range than is required by the EIA/TIA to meet Cat 5e standards."
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Well maybe eventually you might consider CAT6 and weed out the confusion of e and E. LOL.
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Okay this is the best I could do, I hope it helps. On the left is how it is wired now and on the right is how I think I should wire it to eliminate a total of 4 termination points, but would this really help?
(https://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pjc1rj59hDkz6tErnA1fLim-sDIF0Nsn-aVM31VO-CHJ6iUWYIpFoB2Gi9_ZDZqYD98kNRQtLY8g/network%20diagram.jpg?psid=1)
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Your lay out is ok, however it's preferred to put the router as close the the ISP modem, directly connected to the ISP modem, then run wires to the switch then from there out to devices. Is there any way you can still directly wire the xbox to the router in this configuration?
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Yes I believe so, I think I have two RG6 cable runs to my entertainment center which is where my router is located. However I will need to install a coax barrel connector in my panel then move my cable to the entertainment.
I have been researching and it sounds like its better to use more CAT5E than RG6 which leads me to believe its better to have longer run of CAT5E from my modem to router than to have a longer run to my modem and short run to my router. Basically leave the config as is with my modem in my panel and my router at my entertainment center.
I am not to familiar with a switch and how does it work.
I have 2 RG6 runs from my panel to entertainment center and 3 CAT5E runs. One CAT5E is used for telephone and one RG6 is used for cable TV (Direct TV).
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Yea, I agree, everything looks good, but if your going for perfect, I would move the 4500 closer to the modem. The ports on those modems have a hard time going over 50feet. Nothing in spec says it should, but that's just my personal experience. Now if that is going to effect your wireless, maybe get a AP to put where the 4500 is now and turn the wireless off on your 4500?
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Ok, I don't think the router is fifty feet from cable to modem since my entertainment center is pretty close to it, just one small bathroom in between the two.
Anyway, I think I am going to terminate a male RJ45 connector on the cat5e run in the panel from my PC and just plug it in directly to the data hub, instead of it being terminated at a 110 punch block on the hub and then loops over using a 1ft cat5 cable back into the hub and out to the router.
Well anyway thanks guys!
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first of all, where did you manage to get that image of your network layout, secondly, check this out...
go to pingtest.net and run a test...
mine is...
(http://www.pingtest.net/result/47498774.png)
i recommend using CAT6, since the Augmented versions require one end to be grounded and are really only useful for runs over 10 meters, CAT6 will greatly reduce your performance issues, and you can get it cheap from Newegg (http://"http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812270127")
Using your Power-line and Coax converters to network would only be useful on PC's and such since they are rather new to the world of networking above 20Mbps, and a lot of jitter will come from the Power-line because of the dirty electricity (static noise from generators etc) unless you invest in Power-line filters to keep a clean steady flow of electricity you will most certainly see lag from the Power-line adapters. as for the Coax networking, again that's useful for really really long distances, but for home networking i would suggest it.
Coaxial networking i'd consider a last resort if my CAT6 isn't capable then i'd try the spool of CATV 18 AWG i have in my closet. but CAT6 goes for darn near forever, especially with home networking.
your data hub, it wouldn't happen to be a standard Switch now would it, cuz if so, i honestly do not know how you are getting connected to the internet simultaneously, i suggest a router without Wifi then go to a switch and then convert a router into an AP, since that is much more cost efficient way to extend your wireless network.
you still awake?
CAT5e as with any CAT5 cables doesn't have the Gigabit capacity, having the bigger piping would allow for easier communication between your devices, i rarely peak past 104Mbps with internet transfers, but between computers on the network, i sometimes hit around 500Mbps. However i reserve myself for the possibility that CAT# will eventually mean as much as a penny at BestBuy. since i seen information somewhere saying that CAT5 is faster than CAT6... which i think is complete nonsense... but to each their own opinion, right?
The DGL-4500 ever since the 1.20NA update has had major Wifi issues, using an adapted Wireless router for Wifi only on your network will improve the DGL-4500's performance with your network, i know this from experience, i had shut off the wifi for a week and was up for a week. when it was handling both LAN and WLAN it would lock up and freeze 2 times a day on a good day. you jitter and latency issues will almost disappear when you manage these changes.
as for your pinout, be sure you are using a proper pinout by regulation. i use the T568B Gigabit pinout for my entire network. When using a pinout, do not put the same cable with different pinouts, such as, a T568A on a patch cable that leads to T568B, you might get some connectivity but there would most definitely be no connection if any connection it would be outrageous in lag, jitter, etc.
CAT6 pinouts (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T568A#T568A_and_T568B_termination") for the information pertaining to proper pinouts.
i hope this helps, and i hope your head didn't explode with this bombardment of information, if you have further questions i'm sure many of us here can help, i'm speaking mostly from personal experience, and stuff i've learned over time. I once was interested in either Coax or Power-line networking, but was turned away from the latencies and jitter of both.
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Kamikazi21424
Yeah I don't want to run cat6 since my home is two stories, no money and no time. Also I don't think it is really needed just to play XBL.
The data hub is just a termination point, nothing more. Basically it's a 110 punch block and converts it an RJ45 female connection.
Anyway, I called Cox and they had a tech come over and check the cabling from my house to the street. There was some suspect connections and the coax was bent pretty good on one end. I also redid some of the CAT5e termination points in my home that were not in spec. Since then the speed has been good at peak times and ping/jitter is acceptable. Off peak times I ping at 27ms with a jitter <5ms. On peak I get 30-40ms pings and 8-20ms jitter.
I am not sure how reliable speedtest is and wondering if it was a server issue and not on my end or Cox. The only thing I am wondering now is on peak pingtests, is this normal for cable?
I know Cox at peak times will delay test packets for other higher priority ones and maybe that's the issue with my ping. Running ping plotter it look like the ping gets high once it leaves Cox network and starts hitting other servers.
Anyway thanks for your reply.
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Yea, I would focus your ping plotter on just 192.168.100.1, since that completely all your equipment. Don't have to worry about consistency from a test site, or Cox's traffic management. Once that has been done for a couple days, with everything good, then start some traceroutes. There is also a add on for Pingplotter that lets you test with TCP packets. I think it's called WinPCap (http://www.pingplotter.com/winpcap.html). But use at your own risk. It caused some drivers issues in my rig.
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wow this thread is suddenly giving me red flags, saying there is dangerous material on this page. i had to add this to an exception in my firewall.
WinPCAP did nothing but confuse the crap outa me.
i'm still looking for that program my college had to monitor each computer in the computer labs.
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Yea same here, I think it was the insert from Speedtest.net. Odd. False alarm.
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here's my network setup, finally i managed to put a diagram together...
(http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n412/Kamikazi2142/HowToPhotos/NetworkLayout.jpg)
Yellow = Gigabit device
Red = main gateway
Blue = Wireless
Green = 100Mbps max
Black Arrows Signify CAT6
all computers are within the same subnet.
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kamikazi,
Oh sorry I forgot you asked, here is the program I used to create my diagram:
http://www.gliffy.com/uses/network-diagram-software/
Once I was done I used Gadwin print screen, (also free) to save it as .jpg. Otherwise if you save it through gliffy you have to sign up and I did not want to.
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its alright i just used Adobe CS5 Fireworks... hows your network treatin you?
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So far so good, too bad I don't really care how my PC performs I just don't want lag on XBL, lol.
It's almost an obsession :D
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check out the setup i have posted over here (http://"http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=41103.0") try setting your network up like that it should alleviate some of the work load and having the Xbox DMZ'd should allow unfettered throughput
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The link does not work but I was able to figure out which post you were referring to. However if I DMZ the xbox then I will not use gamefuel rules since it will not be needed. Are you saying it is better to DMZ the xbox vs using the XBL sticky? I have had good success with the XBL sticky.
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I recommend not using DMZ as you not be able to use any of the 4500 features and should you be in the DMZ, if other people are online at the same time, this might produce unwanted lag effects as others are trying to get bandwidth while your gaming. Gamefuel works for this, and works very well.
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I agree furry, just wondering why he recommends the DMZ. I have two Xbox running great with the router set up with XBL sticky.
Thx!
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And how is your 4500 working? Inquiring minds want to know. ;D
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Great! Lag is severely minimized on XBL! ;D
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Still need review of your router settings?
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Yeah, can't hurt. I downloaded teamviewer yesterday but still need to install it? Are you available tomorrow after 9:30am AZ time?
just let me know what I need to do, thanks again!
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No you can just run the file and it will give you an option to Run or Install it. Should be able to, I'll get on here and let you know when I'm ready.
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You wanna TV?
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You wanna TV?
what?
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what?
TV = TeamViewer
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Doh, I thought television, lol
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Furry, yeah I was on XBL when you asked if I wanted a television, lol. I know teamview, maybe we can try some other time when you have some free time.
Thanks again!
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Now?
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unfortunately I am back at work for the next four days, ugh why can't I be rich ;D
I will be available next week, Mon-thurs. I wish I had way to get notified besides checking the forums.
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Sent you a PM.