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[WifiWolf]

I live in a 4-story apartment. So does my friend Karen. I live on the second floor and she lives on the 4th floor, in a far corner of the building. I recently purchased a D-Link DIR-655 wifi router for my apartment complex, and the management reimbursed the money and set it up in the computer room on the first floor. Since my room is just above the computer room, and I bought a DWA-556 Xtreme N PCIe adapter for my computer, I get a %100 signal, though it's only 130Mbps (how can I  force is to be 300Mbps? Isn't Xtreme N protocol supposed to support that rate?)  ... however my friend Karen, who has a Laptop with a D-Link DWA-652 I purchased for her only receives a 30% signal, and is not able to use the Internet when they connect. She is within 100-200 feet of the router, but I guess the building walls and floors have things in them that cause radio interference. We got the D-Link Xtreme N 2.4GHZ Indoor Antenna, but it isn't helping Karen connect (only increased signal strength a few percent.)  ... Can you please tell me what can be done so that Karen can access the Xtreme N network radio signal here? I am desperate.

WifiWolf
Somerville, MA, USA

[CrunchyDoodle]

Just a quick note on so-called Xtreme N. The only extreme part is the marketing hype. I have a DIR-655 with 1.21 firmware in my home office. I have a DAP-1555 in the next room, which is one wall and maybe 20 feet away. I have never seen 200Mbps, let alone 300Mbps. Even my ASUS C90S notebook with N, never gets above the magical 130Mbps limit of Intel N wireless chips 5 feet from the DIR-655 with no walls.

I have had some success with an extra high-gain antenna for my downstairs DAP-1555. It has more walls to get through, but is still solid.

Bye.       

[WifiWolf]

OK, I found that D-Link has already posted a solution to the "Only 130Mbps, never 300Mbps transfer rate problem"... it can be found here:

300 Mbps connection requirements! Please read!:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=616.0

However, I still need help with the main question I am asking. How can I improve the range of my D-Link based 802.11n network so that my friend Karen on the 4th floor will be able to connect to the Internet through it?

(And yes, I know the term "Xtreme N" is D-Link's marketing term for one of their specific implementations of 802.11n... various terms include: "Xtreme N" (D-Link), "N1" (Belkin), "RangeBooster" (D-Link, Linksys), "RangeMax" (Netgear), "N_Max" (level one) as well as official variations such as "Draft 2.0". ... SMC Networks, Hawking Technologies, TRENDnet, Encore Electronics, and TP-Link may have their own as well.)

[twk3]

I would recommend purchasing a DAP-1522 or 1555 and placing it on the second floor, as far away from the DIR-655 as you can while still getting a good connection. And putting it into Bridge mode so it picks up the signal from the 655, and then acts as a AP for clients. (I don't have this product, but I believe the wireless AP still works while in Bridge mode, you will have to check)

[Reinvented]

Antenna placement has always been key.  I've been experimenting myself with N, since as Lycan says it requires all three antennas.

There was a link I saw, where it posted this...
http://support.dlink.com/faq/view.asp?prod_id=2539&question=dir-655+antennas

I tried it like that, and it seemed to work.  However, you mentioned having an Intel adapter.  Around here, we've come to realize that Intel adapters don't necessarily have the ability to use the 40Hz channel width, therefore limiting your connection to 130 Mbps.  Mac's are the same way, because of integrated bluetooth and overlapping.  However, forcing it to 5GHz it can work.

You can probably get better penetration to Karen's locations by using G, rather than N.  Ever think about locking it to N and G mixed?  And locking her laptop to connect on ONLY G?

Also, from the last few years of using wireless, we've always learned to use higher channels that don't overlap with other devices.  So, manually try setting it to 1 or 11.  It's a test process, that will take time for sure.

[joshua.davis]

Ok well first things first. How many computers are connecting to the network and what type of adapter are they using. The router will only broadcast at "N" speeds if all computers connecting have "N" adapters. If any one of the computers connecting use "G" then the router will only broadcast at "G" speeds.

Explination:
A router will only broadcast to the lowest speed connection due to overloading. A "G" adapter can only support "G" and lower not "N" so the router acts accordingly. FCC rules gotta love it.

[CrunchyDoodle]

OK, I'm pretty sure you are incorrect here. I have my DIR-655 (1.21 firmware) in mixed G and N mode. I can see both happening in the status information. My two DAP-1555 boxes and my C90S use N at up to 180Mbps, while the other various notebooks around the house use G at 54Mbps. My Kodak digital picture frame uses G, but is up alone on the third floor and never sees more than 40Mbps.

A side note here: I'm more than old enough that the idea of a Kodak picture frame using WiFi is more than Sci Fi. I don't think Capt. Kirk even had one on the original Enterprise.

Bye.     

Ok well first things first. How many computers are connecting to the network and what type of adapter are they using. The router will only broadcast at "N" speeds if all computers connecting have "N" adapters. If any one of the computers connecting use "G" then the router will only broadcast at "G" speeds.

Explanation:
A router will only broadcast to the lowest speed connection due to overloading. A "G" adapter can only support "G" and lower not "N" so the router acts accordingly. FCC rules gotta love it.

[WifiWolf]

Actually, no. I don't use an "Intel Adapter" at all. As I wrote, the router/access point is a D-Link DIR-655 on the 1st floor with a D-Link 2.4GHZ Indoor Antenna, my adapter on the 2nd floor is a DWA-556 PCIe adapter for my desktop machine, and Karen on the 4th floor has a D-Link DWA-652 PCMCIA card (now known as a "PC Card") adapter for her laptop. It seems silly to me that if one "rogue" person who uses the network happens to have a G or B adapter that it would force the rest of us to not be able to use N... that would really undermine the usefulness of the N network protocol.

I need to know about ANY devices that can be placed on the 2nd or 3rd floor that can repeat the N signal (or, I guess the G signal if thats the only one possible.. sigh) ... someone at Micro Center suggested this:

LinkSys Wireless-G Range Expander:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0212004

... but I am wondering, wont that thing repeat all network activity in the area? Or is there a way to force a device like that to ONLY repeat the network of a specific SSID (network-by-name)? Also at $99, it seems a bit pricey for something that only makes the G aspect of my apartment building's network reach further.

[twk3]

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0289721

^As per my initial post.

Crunchy seems to be doing something similar.

[chrisnclovis]

Actually, no. I don't use an "Intel Adapter" at all. As I wrote, the router/access point is a D-Link DIR-655 on the 1st floor with a D-Link 2.4GHZ Indoor Antenna, my adapter on the 2nd floor is a DWA-556 PCIe adapter for my desktop machine, and Karen on the 4th floor has a D-Link DWA-652 PCMCIA card (now known as a "PC Card") adapter for her laptop. It seems silly to me that if one "rogue" person who uses the network happens to have a G or B adapter that it would force the rest of us to not be able to use N... that would really undermine the usefulness of the N network protocol.

I need to know about ANY devices that can be placed on the 2nd or 3rd floor that can repeat the N signal (or, I guess the G signal if thats the only one possible.. sigh) ... someone at Micro Center suggested this:

LinkSys Wireless-G Range Expander:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0212004

... but I am wondering, wont that thing repeat all network activity in the area? Or is there a way to force a device like that to ONLY repeat the network of a specific SSID (network-by-name)? Also at $99, it seems a bit pricey for something that only makes the G aspect of my apartment building's network reach further.

Lycan says that you cannot repeat 802.11n and I have yet to see a wireless repeater that claims that it can.

http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=2639.msg15725#msg15725


And here's something I found on using 802.11g devices on an 802.11n network-

"Of course, if you introduce an a-, b- or g-standard client into an n-standard network, your hot new n-standard router will slow down. (Some slow down more than others.) To achieve the best performance, all hardware—routers and client adapters—needs to be n-standard, and the same flavor of "interim n" as well."

http://www.dailywireless.com/features/80211n-wireless-standard-routers-032807/

[WifiWolf]

Here is what D-Link Technical Support wrote to me:

---
About making 300 Mbps mode work with the DIR-655:

"Based on the description in the email, it seems, you are not able to get a proper speed as per the N standard.
 
Log into the router 192.168.0.1
 
Go to wireless settings ---> manual wireless connection setup.
 
select 802.11 Mode should be mixed mode 802.11B,G,N.
Enable Auto channel scan ---> enabled.
Transmission rate should be best.
Channel width ---> Auto 20/40 MHz."

About reaching the 4th floor from the 1st floor with the 802.11n Network:

"We would like you to know wireless signals do not travel vertical direction."
---

...so can someone explain to me exactly what I should do with a D-Link DAP-1522 or a D-Link DAP-1555 to make it possible for Karen to connect to my local wifi network from the 4th floor? (wifi router is on the 1st floor)

[twk3]

It looks like you can't do what I suggested with just one DAP-1522.

So you have three things you can do I guess.

1 - You can get a rangebooster and broadcast at G <= not a bad idea, you would only likely notice the N speeds when you are doing internal transfers of data inside your complex anyways, unless you're lucky enough to have a ISP giving you fibre.

2 -Buy a DAP-1522 or 1555, set the switch to AP mode, run an ethernet cable to it from your router <= involves running an ethernet cable to where you want the AP (second floor) and you shouldn't be using more than 300 feet of ethernet cable, so you may be restricted to where you can put the AP

3 -Buy two DAP-1522s or 1555, set first one to Bridge mode, connect to the router network wirelessly, connect the second DAP to the first using a short ethernet cable, set the second one to AP mode, setup the wireless <= Expensive, and Quality of the Bridge mode may not be very good or reliable

Note that the APs need to be placed by an outlet


And having them out in the hall is generally better than in a room.

Same with the router, while it has it's security flaws, you're going to get better reception in the building if you get the wireless into the halls.


When I was setting up for college dorms, we would place a bridge in the attic of each dorm, bridge an area of dorms together, (we were using outdoor quality dedicated bridges), we would run a connection to a services room in each dorm, and in that room we would place a switch. We ran cable from the switch to each floor and attached an AP on each floor, at opposite ends. So the first floor might have one 25% down the hall, the second one would be 75%, third would be 25% again.

We were wall mounting the APs about 2-3 feet from the ceiling.

Even with this setup, we had a hard time. These APs and router's would cut out all the time, they aren't made for 50 devices to be connected to each one 24/7. And turn out to be real flaky.

Hopefully you find a way to make this work for your apartment complex.

[chrisnclovis]

Ok well first things first. How many computers are connecting to the network and what type of adapter are they using. The router will only broadcast at "N" speeds if all computers connecting have "N" adapters. If any one of the computers connecting use "G" then the router will only broadcast at "G" speeds.

Explination:
A router will only broadcast to the lowest speed connection due to overloading. A "G" adapter can only support "G" and lower not "N" so the router acts accordingly. FCC rules gotta love it.

According to an faq on DLink's support site you are right about that chief.

"Q: What happens when I connect a Wireless B, B+, G, or Super G device to my Draft N network?

 A: Your network will operate at the speed of the slowest host, therefore if a slower hosts connects, every host will drop speeds to match.
(i.e. I*** host joins, the network changes to allow 54Mbps maximum.)"



http://support.dlink.com/faq/view.asp?prod_id=2585&question=DWA-142%20/%20DWA-542%20/%20DWA-552%20/%20DWA-556%20/DWA-642%20/%20DWA-643%20/%20DWA-645%20/%20DWA-652%20/%20DSM-750%20/%20DAP-1555%20/%20DAP-1522

[WifiWolf]

Hmm.  100 meters of Cat5, Cat5e, or Cat6 Ethernet cable would be fine if they actually LET me use it, but I'm starting to think of trying something like this:

NETGEAR XE102G Wall-Plugged Ethernet Extender Kit:
http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-XE102G-Wall-Plugged-Ethernet-Extender/dp/B000ERAIQ0

...what do you folks think of that? (Or related products)

[twk3]

Wow, that's a nice price, the last time I used a setup like that it was 150 bucks for one. (I think the ones I got gave me better speeds though)

They work as long as the outlets are on the same breaker. (Wait, no, I don't think they need to be, I remember being able to plug it in next door, I've used it for a security test as well, sitting out in the parking lot connected with my latpop to the block heater outlets)

I have used that kind of setup in the past, and it worked fine for me.