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[bomberbrown]

My first post to the forums, hello everyone. 

I've just got a DNS-323 (FW 1.06) and cannot find the disk utilities.  The manual clearly states disk utilites but they are not there.  Were they removed in a previous firmware revision?

If so, how can you defrag or check a disk for errors?  I'm using Windows Vista incidentally. 

Thanks. 

[fordem]

The disk utilities were removed somewhere around 1.02 > 1.03

[bomberbrown]

The disk utilities were removed somewhere around 1.02 > 1.03

  Why would they remove these utilities?

Any idea how I can defrag or check a disk for errors, given that this is now a network drive/NAS?  I'm using Windows Vista incidentally.

[Arvald]

there is no option to defragment.
a quote from wikipedia on EXT3 file systems
"There is no online ext3 defragmentation tool that works on the filesystem level. An offline ext2 defragmenter, e2defrag, exists but requires that the ext3 filesystem be converted back to ext2 first. But depending on the feature bits turned on in the filesystem, e2defrag may destroy data; it does not know how to treat many of the newer ext3 features"
the logic is that it does not need it.

[fordem]

there is no option to defragment.
a quote from wikipedia on EXT3 file systems
"There is no online ext3 defragmentation tool that works on the filesystem level. An offline ext2 defragmenter, e2defrag, exists but requires that the ext3 filesystem be converted back to ext2 first. But depending on the feature bits turned on in the filesystem, e2defrag may destroy data; it does not know how to treat many of the newer ext3 features"
the logic is that it does not need it.

Given the fact that the file system is ext2 - is this relevant?

[Arvald]

FW 1.06 is EXT3.

Back at 1.02 or so it was EXT2.

Hence when they upgraded you had to format the drives and they removed utilities that no longer existed.

[bigclaw]

FW 1.06 is EXT3.

I don't think that's true unless I've been living under a rock...

[Arvald]

seems I may have read that backwards... 1.02 removed EXT3.

[ttmcmurry]

In reality, it's not highly likely that you would experience the kind of fragmentation you would on a desktop/laptop/server on the 323.  Most people use a NAS as a place to store things as opposed to constantly modify things. 

Microsoft has had a recent post on Windows 7's engineering blog about the way defrag was changed in Vista/7 that is very enlightening. 

There are going to be diehards who insist every file be solid; but for most the reality is defrag isn't going to be an issue or something to base a purchase decision over.

[bomberbrown]

Thanks for the replies so far.   

Leaving the defrag debate to one side for the moment, what about the option to check the file system for errors.  How can this now be achieved?  I'm thinking of an equivalent of Windows 'chkdsk' utility. 

[fordem]

In reality, it's not highly likely that you would experience the kind of fragmentation you would on a desktop/laptop/server on the 323.  Most people use a NAS as a place to store things as opposed to constantly modify things

I'm not sure I agree with that - for starters, I can understand why you feel this may be different to a desktop/laptop, but any way you slice & dice it, a NAS is a server - it is not just the frequent modification (or deletion and creation) of data files that causes fragmentation.

Second a server or NAS may be subject to conditions that are even more likely to induce fragmentation - search these forums, you'll find a post where one forum member ran a test, where he "populated" two separate disks with the same data, one by "ftp"ing 10 files in a single stream and the other by "ftp"ing the same 10 files, but this time, with 10 simultaneous writes.

The disk that was written with the 10 simultaneous writes exhibited significant performance degradation when read, as compared to the other disk, and the only explanation is fragmentation - NAS devices are multi-user - and if written to by multiple users simultaneously - even for data that is being stored as opposed to constantly modified -  significant levels of fragmentation may occur.

[Arvald]

Defrag has a use in non-journalling file systems (a use on them too but rarer).  Which is why I said not needed.  but since I found the reference saying NOT EXT3 it means that some defrag will be needed over time.
I keep a media collection that over time I delete/replace files. ( I get recorded TV and when the season comes out on BD or DVD I buy it.)
Also my wife has a large photo collection she uses the DNS 323 for storing her work on them (photographer)

both will lead to fragmentation.  I will check out Fonz FP to see tools are available once I am logged in. 

[Piotr]

Files downloaded with DNS-323 BitTorrent client are heavy fragmented (unfortunately built-in client doesn't have "allocate and zero new files on creation" option to prevent such situations ). That is why defragmentation tool would be very helpful.

[fordem]

Defrag has a use in non-journalling file systems (a use on them too but rarer).  Which is why I said not needed.  but since I found the reference saying NOT EXT3 it means that some defrag will be needed over time.
I keep a media collection that over time I delete/replace files. ( I get recorded TV and when the season comes out on BD or DVD I buy it.)
Also my wife has a large photo collection she uses the DNS 323 for storing her work on them (photographer)

both will lead to fragmentation.  I will check out Fonz FP to see tools are available once I am logged in. 

Journalled or not, if it is a random access file system, and it is accessed randomly, and files are created, deleted and edited then fragmentation will occur.

[ttmcmurry]

Fordem - you do have a very valid point; a scenario I hadn't considered. 

What i'd like to know then is how many people by percentage are 1) using the FTP feature 2) of those people how many are uploading > 1 file at once.

I'd imagine it's a very small number; most people are going to by this nas, map a drive, and forget about it.  It's likely that many people will never change a setting in the GUI. 

As far as disk checking, a request had  been put into 1.08 for the 323 to run fsck (disk checking) as part of the boot and/or shutdown process.

Note:  if you use ffp 0.5, it's possible to add the cleanboot.sh script to your 323 to have this feature until it's implemented in a new firmware release.