D-Link Forums
The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => Routers / COVR => DIR-655 => Topic started by: John on December 04, 2008, 04:15:20 PM
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Here is what I had set up with my DI-624: I had a power strip (actually a cheap surge suppresser) with the DSL modem and the 624 both plugged in. I would usually turn on the computer power and then the switch for the modem and router. By the time the computer was ready to use the router was ready to use and got out ok. Now, same set up except using the DIR-655. When the computer is ready I click my browser but it can not get out. What I have found out is I need to unplug the router (I wait about 30 seconds) and plug back in. I usually need to wait at least a minute (usually more) then I am able to get on line. So, does this mean the router will not function when booted up in tandem with the modem? Does this mean it needs to boot up after the modem is up? And what about the computer, should that be powerd up before the router is turned on? Is this all due to the F/W which needs more time and needs to boot by itself?
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Normally, no. But refreshing connections on either modem, router or PC is not an A-B-C.
Maybe the 655 takes longer to boot up? How did you configure the WAN connection: static IP, DHCP etc?
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You'll cut down on start-up time if you go to Advanced QOS Engine and set the uplink test from Automatic to Manual and setting the right manual value (usually displayed there from the last test).
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Normally, no. But refreshing connections on either modem, router or PC is not an A-B-C.
Maybe the 655 takes longer to boot up? How did you configure the WAN connection: static IP, DHCP etc?
Dynmic IP and DHCP. Yes, the 655 take longer to boot up, much longer then my old DI-624!
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You'll cut down on start-up time if you go to Advanced QOS Engine and set the uplink test from Automatic to Manual and setting the right manual value (usually displayed there from the last test).
Ok, I went Qos and changed it to manual. Did not realize you could even do that. Anyway I'll see how it responds on boot up and then loading the browser. Is that the only tool that might help speed up the boot process?
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You shouldn't be disconnecting the power from the modem or the router, constantly turning them off and on can ruin the power supplies, those devices are designed to be left on.
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Actually I usually do leave the power up and running once I have my PC's on but in this case rebooting the 655 was the only way to make it function. I was going to buy a seperate power switch for the router so I could turn it on after the modem was booted. My outlook has changed. I wanted to see if I was dreaming. I hooked up my DI-624 and everything worked without one little problem. No delays, both PC's able to get online without problems. So I decided to take back the 655. I will wait another 6 months or a year. Comments about the router (not related to it's operation): I noticed a difference between the cable ports on the 655 vs 624. Cable connection on the 655 was a little sloppy and tight on the 624 (better construction?). the 655 was plastic, the 624 metal.I realize products are made a little cheaper to cut costs now days and that's a shame. I will keep my eye on this forum and if things settle down I may re-buy a 655 down the road. John
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Ok, I went Qos and changed it to manual. Did not realize you could even do that. Anyway I'll see how it responds on boot up and then loading the browser. Is that the only tool that might help speed up the boot process?
You can turn off the time-fetching, you can also ask your ISP for a static IP assignment -- either of these will save a tiny bit of time, but the uplink speed test is by far the most time-consuming part of start-up.
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Here is what I had set up with my DI-624: I had a power strip (actually a cheap surge suppresser) with the DSL modem and the 624 both plugged in. I would usually turn on the computer power and then the switch for the modem and router. By the time the computer was ready to use the router was ready to use and got out ok. Now, same set up except using the DIR-655. When the computer is ready I click my browser but it can not get out. What I have found out is I need to unplug the router (I wait about 30 seconds) and plug back in. I usually need to wait at least a minute (usually more) then I am able to get on line. So, does this mean the router will not function when booted up in tandem with the modem? Does this mean it needs to boot up after the modem is up? And what about the computer, should that be powerd up before the router is turned on? Is this all due to the F/W which needs more time and needs to boot by itself?
I running a similar set up and I also upgraded from a DI 624 to a DIR 655 and I not encountering that issue. I usually power up the router first, then power up then my pc. As I said, so far and no noticable delays.
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I running a similar set up and I also upgraded from a DI 624 to a DIR 655 and I not encountering that issue. I usually power up the router first, then power up then my pc. As I said, so far and no noticable delays.
hahaha -- you're creating the delay by powering up in that order -- plus the PC boot-up time/sequence probably makes a difference.
It's weird to me that these don't autonegotiate. For most business, if the power goes down and back up, the network has to come back without manual intervention.
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You shouldn't be disconnecting the power from the modem or the router, constantly turning them off and on can ruin the power supplies, those devices are designed to be left on.
Hi Lycan,
What about during a Thunderstorm, should not you turn off the Router to protect it?
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Read closely what Lycan says...
You shouldn't be disconnecting the power from the modem or the router, constantly turning them off and on can ruin the power supplies (...)
Unless you live in an area with continuous thunderstorms ofcourse...
In case of a thunderstorm you need to unplug your device. When lightning really strikes it can potentially fry a PC/modem/router. You can also buy a powersurge protector.
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Get a UPS with a GOOD ground and make sure the socket it's connected to is grounded to the water pipes int he wall and you'll be fine. If the static gets bad from the thunder take the antennas off.
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As I said I was not a happy camper. I did take back the 655. I am currently testing the new Belkin N+(F5D8235-4). If this does not meet my conditions it will go back as well. So far this thing runs like my old DI-624 did. No problems getting online with any of my computers. Also boots up at the same time as my modem and works. I still believe the F/W is part of the problem in the 655. If another compamy can do it D-Link should be able to do it. Of course I will give this Belkin more time to make sure it is stable. If Belkin does not work out I may be back.
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John,
Comparing one router to another is not a good way to evaluate ANYTHING.
Is your problem the fact that the unit takes time to boot?
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Yes, that was one item I viewed as a problem. The 655 would not boot in tandem with the modem and be available. I had to unplug the power (router only) and reboot then I was able to use it. The Belkin boots as fast as the DI-624. Another problem was my secondary PC. Getting online was a sometimes issue (primary PC and laptop were ok) using either MS browser or Firefox. Now I've been told there are many things that need to come together for this to happen (getting online) but the DI-624 and the Belkin do it. I tried everything I could think of plus suggestions from this forum. No luck for either booting or getting online (consistently) with second PC. If my DI-624 and the new Belkin do not have issues in these areas that leads me to believe the 655 needs a lot of user tweaking and/or F/W updates. My contention is why must I (purchaser) be responisbile for finding a cure for these items. So, as I said I'm evaluating the Belkin. If it does not meet my standards it will go back. So far it is working the way I want it to without tweaking. I have used D-Link for many years but I may have to break that record.
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John,
Your expectations are ridiculous.
First powering on and off your hardware is a NO NO. If the device was meant to be powered off, it would have had a switch. Second, you're complaining about the modem and the router not booting in sync with one another, of course they don't. Ones a modem and the other is a sophisticated router with lots of things going on.
You claim the firmware needs to be fixed, for what? So that it boots faster for 1 guy so he can power down his hardware? There's nothing wrong with the firmware (well there is, but it's nothing related to your issue), you need to understand that this router is designed to be powered on and LEFT on. the firmware was built around that idea.
You're comparing a 624 (old school) router and another manufacturers device to ours and making a judgment based on dissimilar boot sequences? The 624 is a busybox device, the 655 is a Ubicom device and their YEARS apart from one another.
Why are you powering down the hardware anyway?
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Your expectations are ridiculous.
Beware, Lycan. ;)
IMHO you're 100% right, in all aspects and qualifications of the issue.
Let me do the bashing, you stick to 'company policy PC' responses. ;D
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It's a personal opinion, not that of my company.
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Yep. But there's a Dlink icon next your name and unfortunately some people cannot differeniate personal from company responses.
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One thing I like about Lycan is that he doesn't only give the corporate line, he gives his own opinion too. Too many companies don't let their folks do that and as a result, customers and interested parties feel like they're talking to a wall or a robot. ;) We're all here to learn, and reasonable people can be agreeable and yet still disagree.
John,
Your expectations are ridiculous.
No, his expectations are sane. He may not be aware that his expectations are not optimum, we'll get into that next... 8)
First powering on and off your hardware is a NO NO. If the device was meant to be powered off, it would have had a switch.
He's probably not alone -- often-repeated advice in the media has been to power down your devices when not in use to save money and energy, especially if the device has a power adapter or a stand-by mode, unplug it even if the device has a power-switch!
While I've never tested the consumption either way, D-Link has been responding to the world's desire to conserve power. The DIR-655 has many ground-breaking, energy-saving features not enjoyed by D-Links earlier routers like the DI-624 -- but none of them had power switches.
Even if this does shorten the DIR-655's lifespan (it might), it certainly is reasonable to expect that if the router and modem are left on, that after a power failure the router will boot up in a state allowing communications to continue. If it doesn't, that would affect my purchase decision. This is also a real simple test to perform, and the firmware development team ought to be running a test suite pre-release that includes that test.
(I am not confirming that this does or does not occur for some. My configuration is unique and after a power failure, my system seems to be fine.)
Second, you're complaining about the modem and the router not booting in sync with one another, of course they don't. Ones a modem and the other is a sophisticated router with lots of things going on.
Today's modems are quite sophisticated themselves! Most are hybrid devices (modem/VOIP phone/router/coffee-maker). Some of the newest ones are now joining multiple data streams to get faster peak speeds.
There's nothing wrong with the firmware (well there is, but it's nothing related to your issue), you need to understand that this router is designed to be powered on and LEFT on. the firmware was built around that idea.
Yes, I agree. This isn't the device you should unplug to save power or cycle on/off regularly to save power.
You're comparing a 624 (old school) router and another manufacturers device to ours and making a judgment based on dissimilar boot sequences?
Requirements and features are assessed in terms of MUST, SHOULD, and COULD. Everyone's grading scale will be different. Friendly to turning off/on frequently would be a SHOULD requirement for me, but recovering from a power failure into a working state would be a MUST requirement.
The 624 is a busybox device, the 655 is a Ubicom device and their YEARS apart from one another.
The DI-624 isn't a busybox device (busybox devices would require source releases under the GPL). But your main point is valid, the DI-624 is a much simpler device and capability-limited device.
I'm glad that John moved on to try something else -- it's what he should have done given the circumstances and his requirements. They are important requirements to him, and what he was trying to do -- whether the best way to do it or not -- really should have worked.
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Friendly to turning off/on frequently would be a SHOULD requirement for me, but recovering from a power failure into a working state would be a MUST requirement.
I have tested my router's behaviour to see if John's conclusions were correct. In all most likely scenario's I've found no problem getting a connection... ???
Modem off - router on: connection automatically made when modem was turned on
Modem on - Router off: connection automatically made when router was turned on
Modem off - router off (different timings): see above conclusions when turning both on
Maybe I am not reading correctly but I don't see an issue...
Edit: Modem used was a Speedtouch 780i (which has a terrible boot time, but those extra 20 secs. do not really bother me ;) )
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1) 624 IS busybox. We have GPL somewhere, don't ask me where though. Trust me, I've dealt with that one.
2) The unit will return to normal operation mode if given time to boot. He's expecting it to boot in sequence with his modem. Modems being sophisticated as they may be, their NEVER even close to what a dedicated router can do. Especially one that is powered by ipOS from Ubicom. In my eyes Ubicom is THE premier vendor for NAT hardware/software solutions. Because of the features included in their designs and the requests of our customers the ipOS has a uplink algorithm that it runs to rate your actual upstream bandwidth. (I believe it has a pre-programed HEX value that it translates to a IP address within a certain number of hops from your public gateway.) If it can't find an IP at that value it tries another. Hence the boot times.
3) Granted, green is good and I'm all for saving power, and to tell you the truth I think we could do more to make our routers greener, and well will. But this router is not green. Trying to compensate for that by turning it off is only going to cost you money in replacing it, and to me the PENNIES you'd save by having it off is not worth the 99.00+ it would take to replace it, or getting a refurb via RMA.
4) Lastly, expecting TWO different hardware vendors devices to act the same or work the same is unreasonable. It's not an attack on the gentleman, but an attempt to convey the simple fact that the router is the way it is. There's nothing wrong with the boot sequence and therefor nothing to fix. Assuming that because you had an older D-Link product that acted a certain way that newer units (by a factor of a few years) will behave in the same manner and if they don't D-Link is responsible to correct that isn't fair.
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Busybox on ThreadX? That surprises me but I've never done embedded programming. (WHY? I seem to like these things!) I've followed D-Link pretty closely and I've never seen a DI-624 img GPL'd. Yep, "surprised" is a good word.
As for the rest,
2) I like Ubicom too. As to whether contemporary modems or contemporary SoHo routers are more complicated, I'd vote router (rather blindly) as well. They do have a boot cycle of their own.
3) We agree here. I merely wanted you to offer you a chance to understand why customers may behave differently.
4) Fair or not, wise or not, a good experience with a router is what causes people to buy the next one from the same manufacturer -- even if others are there for a lower price. Now the DI-624 and the DIR-655 aren't even close cousins, but we'd like to think that D-Links quality standards would make up for any differences. (remember, I said, "or not"). :D
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I agree. However his request for us to "correct" the firmware after we explained it to him is the unreasonable part.
as for the GPL, we may have it posted somewhere, I can find out for you if you like. It is busybox however, i know because I did work with the watchdog for the DI line. In fact oddly the DI-604 Rev E is a Arm 9 with busybox, you could turn that router in to a miniserver with the right standoff pins and a little know how, or so i'm told.
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as for the GPL, we may have it posted somewhere, I can find out for you if you like.
Yeah, I'd like to play with that! Thanks!
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Yes, that was one item I viewed as a problem. The 655 would not boot in tandem with the modem and be available. I had to unplug the power (router only) and reboot then I was able to use it. The Belkin boots as fast as the DI-624. Another problem was my secondary PC. Getting online was a sometimes issue (primary PC and laptop were ok) using either MS browser or Firefox. Now I've been told there are many things that need to come together for this to happen (getting online) but the DI-624 and the Belkin do it. I tried everything I could think of plus suggestions from this forum. No luck for either booting or getting online (consistently) with second PC. If my DI-624 and the new Belkin do not have issues in these areas that leads me to believe the 655 needs a lot of user tweaking and/or F/W updates. My contention is why must I (purchaser) be responisbile for finding a cure for these items. So, as I said I'm evaluating the Belkin. If it does not meet my standards it will go back. So far it is working the way I want it to without tweaking. I have used D-Link for many years but I may have to break that record.
Hi John,
Something I don't understand. You are posting about the DI-624, DIR-655 and a Belkin. You mention nothing about your Cable Modem or DSL Modem that you are using with the Router.
First off, I never unplug the Cable Modem or my D-Link DIR-655 A3 Router. Both the Router and my Motorola Surfboard 5100 Cable Modem are plugged into the same Belkin Power Strip.
To reboot the Cable Modem and the Router, I simply turn off the Power Strip for 1 minute and turn it back on.
Nothing fancy. Works every time and all the settings are remembered by each device.
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thecreator,
Hello all, Im back for a visit. I run a Cisco 678 dsl modem with the router off of that. I have both the modem and router plugged into a power strip and use that to turn on/off both devices. Actually I've been doing that for a few years now. I'm on my second power strip. I suppose I got spoiled with the DI-624 boot up. Since the 655 takes longer to boot up I need to wait it out. But on the first boot up of the 655 (when it's online and ready to go) my primary pc cannot get out. That's when I reboot the 655. When that's complete I can then get online. As mentioned early on I run two pc's and a laptop. My primary pc and my laptop usually have no problem getting out but my secondary pc will sometimes get out and sometimes not. I realize I was trying to compare a 1957 Ford (DI-624) with a 2008 Ford (DIR 655) however I am now evaluating the newest Belkin wireless router (the N+), a 2009 Ford. So far not a hint of a problem but if there is it will go back. I'll say one thing, if I had a problem with Belkin I wish they had forums like this. I have nothing against D-Link (I won't go near Linksys). I'm just trying to find the router that suits me best. If things don't work out for and Belkin I will be back with D-Link and try again. Happy networking. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
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The same to you John.
But try to remember that, although your ON/OFF procedures have never caused any malfunctions so far, it can lead to early retirement of the devices. And as already mentioned, the power/money saving contribution of this action will get you about 1 Big Mac worth of saving each year. But you enlarge the change of a defective device, so it *might* be a penny wise, pound foolish situation.... As for security: turning it off is the most secure thing you can do, but unless you have a Trojan riddled LAN behind the devices the chances of getting a security breach are absolutely minimal (0.00001 %). The onboard firewalls on the devices can also be strictly managed.
There are now quite some people very anxious about the reason for this daily ON/OFF routine. If you like it, fine with me. But there is really no need for this extra activity.
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EddieZ,
Thank you for the advise. As a matter of fact I have began to turn the modem/router on/off once a day. I now leave it on for most of the day regardless if I am using the computers or not.
As for the other problem (secondary PC hit or miss getting on the Net) the jury is still out on the Belkin.
Just to let the admin's know some of your comments did not bother me at all. Sometime you need to say things that are not politicaly correct. In my older age (66) there is not much that bothers me any more. Well there are a couple of things but this is not the place to talk about them but my Doctor get's an ear full.
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EddieZ,
Thank you for the advise. As a matter of fact I have began to turn the modem/router on/off once a day. I now leave it on for most of the day regardless if I am using the computers or not.
As for the other problem (secondary PC hit or miss getting on the Net) the jury is still out on the Belkin.
Just to let the admin's know some of your comments did not bother me at all. Sometime you need to say things that are not politicaly correct. In my older age (66) there is not much that bothers me any more. Well there are a couple of things but this is not the place to talk about them but my Doctor get's an ear full.
Thanks, John.
There's a balance to everything, PC-ness does not reflect one's true opinion and being blunt and/or offending should not be acceptable behaviour. It's a challenge to find the balance.
But I guess you've looked around the forum and you might have noticed that a lot people expect you to provide a solution without even giving basic details...A doctor cannot solve issues without having been given the symptoms and details, can he?.
But if you need a listener, you know where to find the personal message button