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The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => Routers / COVR => DGL-4500 => Topic started by: XS on March 15, 2012, 04:38:34 PM
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I felt my other thread was getting off topic so I created another one to discuss lag issues with gaming. Anyway saw this interesting thread on the MW3 forums.
http://community.callofduty.com/thread/200409455 (http://community.callofduty.com/thread/200409455)
Has anyone else done this while playing on line?
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Wonder that MTU number the used. I know for Cable it's 1500 and DSL it's 1492. I'm getting ready to setup the 4500 again.
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OK, I installed the 4500 again today. Did some Wireless and wired gaming. Noticed that I couldn't get full bars ok MW3 if i left the NAT settings at default. So there back and Endpoint. I noticed that it won't give me 5Ghz wireless status on the xbox for some reason. It will for my Mac Book. Odd. 2.4Ghz it reported the connection.
I didn't set up an GF rules. Have OPEN NAT on MW3. Only think I did was disable Dynamic Fragmentation and turned off WISH and WPS. All others is set up as default with reserved IPs. I didn't have a greatest night in gaming but was ok. I think I'm more tired. Didn't see any lags. Did have a few games where it changed hosts. I did notice that when I was hosting with 2 people in my lobby, our signal was low, in the yellow. This was wiredless. We all played well accept for dealing with the cheaters, hehe.
I'm getting 2500something on the automatic uplink speed measurement. I took a capture and will post it.
I'll try some logs tomorrow.
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Ok, I have PT enabled again, played 3 games last night.
Game 1: killed confirmed on Black box: I went negative 7/11, hit detection was okay, I think I did bad because its a new map and the other team was real campy, The game reached its time limit before any team reached 65 since people were camping so bad. Final score 38 to 43 (loss).
Verdict: to be expected with a new map and going against a team who likes to camp, I can accept this but then again 3 people left the game before it ended, poor sports or too much lag? I don't know.
Game 2: Domination on Black box: Hit detection was really good, went 12/7 and won. No lag noticed in this match. Yay!
Game 3: Team death match: I pull host, hit detection is really good again maybe even great. I even got a triple kill with a bouncing betty! lol. Things going good, close game but my team is winning, the game gets a little glitchy, then I get kicked and I am sitting back in the lobby all by myself!!! >:(
I have encountered at least 3 disconnects this week and this would very rarely happen before! Once it happened when playing with my son, I got kicked but he was still playing the same match when I went in the other room to see if he did too. I am pretty sure I was host that time too, not sure why everyone did not get disconnected unless XBL sees both of us as host.
Anyway, I ran line quality check and my upload consistency was 24%! As mentioned in the auto uplink thread I changed auto uplink to manual (2048) and now I get ~90% upload consistency.
I have a minimum of 2 meg upload and my modem levels are in spec with no packet loss, why is this game needing so much bandwidth to host a game???
I have not played any more matches since doing this, just wanted to let everyone know where I was at.
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Did you have any GF rules set up or just using defaults? I was using defaults last nite.
We need to hook up and game some and do some testing.
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I am still using GF rules, I want to see if PT and manual uplink set to 2048 does anything for me first. My plan is to make one change at time and see how it goes. I also would like to get more game time in to get more data so to speak.
I have port 3074 with priority of 30 and the other XBL ports set to 60 so my Xbox overall has priority over every thing. If still having issues, I am going to disabled the other XBL ports in GF rules and only leave port 3074 with a GF rules and see how it goes.
Then I will try disabling all manual rules as you advised and see what happens.
Yeah we do to get some games in, I am almost done working all this OT so then maybe I will have some free time to play more than two games at time. :D
I also ran ping plotter last night for couple of minutes and it is definately more consistent then when I was not seeing these problem.
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I presume you are wired to the 4500 with the xboxes?
Ya, need to test some games out with and with out PT and GF.
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Yeah Furry I am wired on both Xbox's. Anyway, I do see an improvement with lag when PT is enabled, not much but it is something, (see PF/PT thread for details).
I am really starting to think MW3 is just a broken game and there is nothing I can to do to fix the lag issues I see with this game. I may just go back to Black Ops but I am going to give MW3 some more time and hope something will get fixed somehow-someway.
Anyway, so PT enabled does work for me so my next test I am running is to disable all manual GF rules so this way the router will determine what gets priority. I will see how it goes!
Also I was wondering if you are using manual GF rules why would you leave "automatic classification" checked? Isn't this setting the priority twice so to speak and may screw things up? I would think if you are using manual GF rules you should leave this unchecked????
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I replied.
Not really sure if Auto Classification is the same thing as setting a rule. I believe it has to do with how the GF interacts with the network and the packets coming and going. From my experiences, it's always been left ON. However you could test this out and see what works better for you though. Let us know.
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I found a review on the 4300 and this is what they said about auto classification:
"Automatic Classification feature enabled. Think of Automatic Classification as the lazy person's QoS, which automatically manages upstream bandwidth to give priority to applications that are time-sensitive. Here's D-Link's explanation of how Automatic Classification works:
"[Automatic Classification] uses a special intelligence engine to continuously classify applications as they pass through - it is not limited by the pre-defined applications. Those are there purely for convenience in setup. It will work for any application including VoIP. It also doesn't just prioritize UDP over TCP. There are 255 levels of classification that are based on a mix of several parameters such as protocol, port numbers, packet sizes, interframe timing, as well as several others."
The weightings used and the priority assigned are part of the product's "secret sauce", but you'll get a feel for how Automatic Classification works when I review my test results later."
Source:
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/review-dgl4300,review-406-8.html (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/review-dgl4300,review-406-8.html)
Description from router help tab:
"Automatic Classification
This option is enabled by default so that your router will automatically determine which programs should have network priority."
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Then maybe this could be turned off if using a manual GF rule. ???
I would suspect that there could be a algorithm difference between the 4300 and 4500 as well. Depending on how they coded it and what they learned from the 4300 to improve on the 4500, there could be better improvements to the Auto Classification too that might warrant leaving it ON. Just a though. :-\
This would be a good test to see what works and doesn't.
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Yeah, I will give this try too, reading the info on auto classification, sounds like if you know how to set up QoS (GF) you should leave this unchecked.
Too bad there is very little info on this router on the net.
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Agree, when I first got my 450o years back, I figured like everyone else does about there routers that all that was On out of the box. Then diving in to the router and tinkering with it, noticed that it's not quite set up for gaming or XBL. Ya, everything worked however Help and such was limited. I manged to find a couple of sites that referenced GF on the 4100 and 4300. I deduced that this would apply to the 4500 as well and it did. Got a better understanding over the years on how QoS and GF works and setting it setup well though. ::)
Just found one of the sites and it's still up, LOL: http://www.jerrykindall.com/gamefuel.html (http://www.jerrykindall.com/gamefuel.html)
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Thanks for link Fur, yeah the more I read about GF, sounds like you don't need to set up manual rules unless there is a need for it. I think Harry also stated this, Anyway, rarely anyone in my household is using the internet and if they are it's just surfing the web, Facebook, flash games, etc.
Also, manual GF rules supercede automatic classification which my screen shots also prove in the XBL port thread. Only thing I am curious about is if the GF engine gets confused with auto classification checked and manual GF rules enabled. I guess I will find out soon enough but I never had these issues with Bops and I am 90% sure its the gaming code IW is using screwing it up.
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Ok I'm going to try with No Auto Classification OFF and GF rules OFF and just PT. Just curious.
I looked and I have been using Manual GF rules AND Gaming(PF). That has been working over the past week for me.
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Sounds good Fur, yeah I have been reading some reviews on the DGL-4300 since I have yet to find a review that goes into detail about Game fuel on the 4500.
Anyway, I am starting to come to the conclusion that GF was only ever intended for use with ISP's with real slow upload speed <768k??? Probably why D-link stopped using the GF technology in their newer routers since with today's ISP's offering faster upload speeds its not needed anymore.
More testing.........................
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Well I managed to play a couple of games before having ot hop off and work on my bike yesterday.
I set up the 4500 and disabled GF entirely and just set up PT for 3074. Had full bars and gaming was pretty good even though my first game was yucky on my behalf. LOL. I'll try and get on more tonight and play more. Again, I feel this work well for single xbox set ups. Multi xbox, probably not so much. ;)
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Router set up:
No manual GF rules.
Manual up link speed set to 4096.
Auto classification: Enabled.
Dynamic fragmentation: Disabled.
With my router configured this way I have only been able to get couple of games in the last two nights or so but just to provide a little feedback....
All games were TDM.
Game 1: On Resistance, lag was pretty bad, started the match 0-5 and finished 8-8. Could not win a gunfight only way to get kills was to play defensively. -no fun :'(
Game 2: On Mission, Connection was really good, no complaints. This is how the game should play, I finished 16-10 and it was a close game 7500-6800 so hopefully the other team was not lagging.
Now for last night.
Game 1: On Black Box, connection was questionable because how the way the game went down, I could not tell if there was lag or not since there were really no gunfights. The other team were mostly snipers and game play was very slow. I kept getting sniped across the map and finished 7-10.
Game 2: On Dome, I pull host and was lagging real bad, could not win a gun fight even if I shot half a clip at someone first ! Horrible, it was so bad I don't know what I would have finished because I just quit and said I am done playing for tonight! If I had to take a guess 5-15???
Anyway, I think I need to face reality and know there isn't anything I can do and there isn't some magic setting on this router that is going to make a difference! :-[
When I do good I always wonder is it because the other team is lagging or my skill? To be honest, I don't know anymore. I think this game is 90% connection and 10% skill, how sad.
I am losing hope for this game real fast, I spent $100 on the hardened edition and I would like to get my money's worth so I am hoping IW next update fixes lag compensation or matchmaking. If not Black Ops here I come! :P
Anyway how is everyone else gaming experience?
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We need to play XS. Im still using Just PT only, All GF and other stuff is OFF. Single xbox. NAT to Endpoint on both.
Also, interested in trying out a different router to see if you get the same results?
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Fur,
So you are not seeing much lag?
Yeah I need to find some to get games in, you play mostly at night, correct?
I have really linksys router but I am sure it worse than the 4500, I am pretty sure its just the game that's messed up.
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Play in evenings and night and on weekends during the day if i'm not doing anything else.
I see some lag here and there. I feel thats due to other players in the game. The people I play with have pretty good UP and Down ISPs or there running the 4500. I know your trying to find more time to play too.
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Ok, well I have some good news but I am waiting to hear back from Cox to see what changed but my internet has been running the best it ever has since 3/24. Anyway I will post an update with more details when I hear back from my ISP.
I did notice some lag when someone is surfing the internet the other day, maybe coincednce but who knows. Anyway if this truly the case and if I wanted to set up manual game rules what do you think is best?
1. Just add one manual GF rule for my PC's and set it to 200?
2. Just set up GF rules for my XBL ports and set it to a lower priority than 128? like 30? (No GF rule for PC's).
3. Just leave auto classification, no manual GF rules?
When using manual GF rules for everything, should auto classification be on or off???
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I used 200 for my PCs.
I had auto classification ON at the the time. I'd test what works best for you.
Keep us posted on the ISP. I was wondering about them.
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Well well well...... So Cox got back to me and no maintenance or changes were done to my line in the past week. So with being said, could this really be the cause of my issues in MW3? Why not black Ops? Please read on......
Short story: My modem was getting too warm!
Long story:
So it has always bothered me where the Cox "cable guy" installed my DPQ-3212 Modem because he installed it in my structured wiring panel where there is no airflow! However since I was nervous about this I would check it after heavy gaming or internet usage. It definitely felt warm to the touch, with the 9 db attenuator on the back of it being the warmest. I thought the temperature of it was acceptable and figured if it was going to cause issues, Cox would have never installed it there and boy was I wrong!
So last Saturday, (3/24) I decided to remove the front cover of my panel and temporarily mounted the modem to the wall, I will let the results speak for themselves.
Here are screen shots from ping test before and after 3/24.
(https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFyCB6sMRw3tHGl_4UTzOfFO9bxh4kFjMEyTGWHdLpYYc8R4QWliQ5XpmsOhCM4vvtmikNnSYe1FMvk5AzXPOxg/ping%20b4.JPG?psid=1)
Pingtest the last couple of days!
(https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pVdhU6WvP5tNxk9-SYaky6B9aTujMrpoltA2FTOpIqKfTmzefBJPKVJG2bvbPrLUUzA28GNA__5oog_p0SFcdNA/ping%20after.JPG?psid=1)
My ping has never been this stable before, even while heavy internet usage or at peak times ping stays pretty much the same when running these test. Before 3/24, if someone was using the internet and I ran a pingtest, I would be lucky to get a "B" rating!
As for gaming, huge improvement! Very little lag with my router set up the same as my above post. Since I did notice some lag when someone was using the internet, I enabled my manual GF rules and PC rules with auto classification off. I will see how it goes!
So is this really possible, that was my modem getting too warm and causing erratic pings or just coincidence????
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How interesting, modem performance effected by temperature possible.
I would test this out for a few days then go back and put the modem in the original spot and test again then you'll know.
Any chance of you testing a SB 6 series modem out? ???
Keep us posted on how this new placement works for you.
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Yeah I was questioning it too Fur and that is one of the reasons I waited four days to update this thread. I have that Cisco eMTA modem. Maybe that 9Db attentutor does not like to get hot, who knows but I am not complaining! ;D
This is what I am talking about if you are wondering:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20268250-AZ-What-is-this-thing (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20268250-AZ-What-is-this-thing)[/url]
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And you removed that or is it still connected? What happens if you leave it off then put it back on? ???
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Yeah I removed it but my modem levels are better with it installed so I put it back on.
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Possible on reason it's installed is that signal levels are higher for your area thus a need for attenuating some of that to bring the levels into a better acceptable range for the modem.
Lets play sometime soon. ;D
Keep us posted.
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Yeah sounds good, Cox has to have their levels in a certain spot or the tech will fail QC.
Anyway, tonight was lag city! I lasted three games before quitting for good.
It took while to log into XBL and my Xbox was loading everything real slow. So hopefully that was the cause. First match was way too glitchy, I could not even move with out getting motion sickness, everything got blurry when I tried moving, so I left and reset my Xbox.
2nd match was good halfway through and then couldn't win a gun fight.
3rd match, oh my, lag was horrific, I quit when I was 1-7 and that 1 kill was in final stand, wow! Something real weird going on in this match, one guy I literally shot almost a clip in him and got a ton of hit markers and then he disappeared and he blew me up with C4???? A total of 7 people on my team quit that match and there was a total of 13 players on my team! So everyone was lagging!
Anyway I hope something funky was going on tonight.
Right noe
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I noticed some lag last night in a few games. Not sure if it was the people I was playing with or what. I know one of my guys stopped and came back after restarting his xbox. Might have been his system. Gaming last nite was OK. I think I wasn't on my game. Was an ok night.
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Well I managed to play a couple of games before having ot hop off and work on my bike yesterday.
I set up the 4500 and disabled GF entirely and just set up PT for 3074. Had full bars and gaming was pretty good even though my first game was yucky on my behalf. LOL. I'll try and get on more tonight and play more. Again, I feel this work well for single xbox set ups. Multi xbox, probably not so much. ;)
Hey fur, are still running with GF disabled entirely?
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Last time I checked I did. I'll have to go back and see what I left on it as I've switch routers again. ::)
I belive I had been using PT only with GF OFF. I'll check when I get home soon. Gonna be online this evening?
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I might be, not sure yet. Hey do you know what happens if you enable GF, turn off auto classification and have no manual rules? Is this the same as having GF disabled?
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I think GF is still running if you turn off Auto Classification and have no rules going. I just checked the 4500 router and GF was totally disabled and was using PT for 3074. ;)
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Well more BS tonight but to honest I may have not been on my game.
Anyway, 1st game, I pull host, lag and more lag, started 0-5 and quit. Pulling host is like the kiss of death in MW3, in Black Ops it was awesome.
Joined another game that was halfway over, lag was acceptable and finished 7-7.
3rd and last game on Black box, sniper city they should have called it, I hate this map, went 4-8, awesome!
Internet connection is still good, no erratic pings, so this time it was the game, no wonder why Robert Bowling resigned as PR for Activision. Who wants to promote a broken game?
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How is everyones gaming?
Mine is still erratic, better than what it was a couple of weeks ago but not good. I would say its tolerable where right when you say "screw you MW3!" you will have a pretty good game to keep you going, its a viscous circle, lol.
Anyway last night I wanted to run a test since everyone is saying people with fast internet connection is getting screwed, so I changed my uplink speed to 128kbps.
It took at least 5 minutes to find a match, usually I find a match in less than 1 minute. I was only able to play one TDM match and that was on Bakara. I finished 11-9 and it was a close game, lost 7300-7500. I should have done a lot better but my aim was off on a couple of gun fights that I clearly should have won. The funny things is I think the slow internet theory has some truth behind it. There were no insta-deaths and when I did get shot in the back I was able to at least turn on the enemy and get one shot off before dying. I felt the game was fair, where the better shots won the gunfight
However It was just one game and I would like to try it again to see if game play is consistent. Regardless I should have been lagging real bad with only 128kbps upload, no?
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I noticed last night while gaming there was some lag. I also notice that I was only getting 3 bars with running the router in default mode. I checked my ISP service it it was running at 30's down from 50. Up was ok. I turned on my game rule and manged to get full bars. I was kicked from a game due to lost server connection. Not sure what that was about. Saw a few games with Lag going on. It took me a few games to warm up. After a few others joined me we kicked azz. I saw you online and was hoping to join up. Maybe this weekend?
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Yeah I was only online for about 5 games, more than usual, lol. That's odd that adding a game rule changed your connection to 4 bars. Was anything else using the internet?
I usually at least have a 3 bar connection but I have lagged just as much on having a 4 bar as well. With all these people I hear on the MW3 forums screwing around with their connection is only adding to the problem.
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Not that I know of, roommate was in bed and neighbor doesn't use the Internet that late at night. So was just xbox and my Laptop to monitor and configure the router.
Seem that most of the things I see comes from playing MW3. I need to go back and play MW2 and see if I notice anything. I highly doubt I will. Let play sometime so we can test. ;)
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You might be surprised, I hear a lot of people who go back to MW2, just love the hit detection and actually having a host advantage. However they usually get fed up with everything else (noob tube, OMA, knifing) and stop playing.
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I know...can't stand the running class and No Scoping. I actually enjoy MW2 alot for the most part. Way better than BO. For some reason just could not get full enjoyment out of that game.
Well, once Diablo 3 and Halo 4 comes out, I'll be hitting those hard I think. Will be nice to do some PC gaming again. Do miss it.
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We paid an annual subscription for WoW. For the bonus, we received an OK mount, a guaranteed spot in the upcoming Mists of Pandaria (Next expansion), AND a free copy of Diablo 3.. :) It's already installed on my laptop waiting for the servers to go Live. ;D
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Must be nice. ::)