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[kizer_rezik]

I currently have two DNS-323's.

1 has a pair of 1.5TB drives and the other has 1 pair of 500Gig drives. Both drives in both NAS's more or less are copies of each other just in case Volume 1 dies.

My question is the following. Can I pull Volume 2 out of each and store on a shelf and then put in blank drives in Volume 2?

My thinking is this:

Instead of buying another NAS because my 1.5 setup is full I thought I could Take Volume_2 out and store it on a shelf as the backup for Volume_1. Throw in a blank and Fill up Volume_2 and then use my other NAS to backup Volume_2 and then put that back on the shelf.

Will the NAS go nuts with Volume numbers or does it really care at all?
In the end what I really want is to have 3TB of storage available on one NAS and Backups of that data sitting on a shelf as a backup.

I almost thought of just buying a portable USB style drive and just backing it up, which would make my data portable and less hasell than pulling out drives or getting a Sata disk doc and just keeping the price cheaper.

Ideas?

[jamieburchell]

Slightly confused. What is the drive configuration on your NAS's? RAID 1, seperate volumes? If you have the drives in a RAID 1 config and pull a drive and insert a blank the RAID array should be rebuilt.

Just re-read your post, you have separate volumes, not RAID 1. Not sure what will happen if you pull Volume_2 and insert a blank disk. Probably be prompted to format it.

I use a SATA USB docking station and a custom script to copy the drive contents to USB. Simple.

[fordem]

Assuming standard drives - if a drive removed and a new one inserted, the unit will prompt you to format the new drive - the danger is that it may format the existing drive, this has been an ongoing problem over many of the firmware updates and I am not certain if it has been resolved.  You could remove bothe drives, install the new one, format it and then reinstall one of the previous two, that is usually safe.

If you have a RAID or JBOD configuration, I would suggest you not remove drives.

[gunrunnerjohn]

I think this is a really BAD idea!  This kind of manipulation is just asking for a mistake to be made and the data to be gone.

[jamieburchell]

I for one cringe at the thought of keep pulling disks out of the unit. Tempting fate springs to mind.

[fordem]

Apart from the DNS-323's penchant for formatting the wrong drive - which I have already mentioned, I see the dangers as being no greater than if you were using removable hard drive cartridges (as in an Imation Odyssey or an Iomega Jazz drive) or a tape drive.

[jamieburchell]

User preference I guess. It just dosen't feel right to intentionally pull disks out of a RAID configuration. It's like pulling a carpet from underneath a table with all your fine china on. I guess it's not so bad if you are not running an array. But even so, I'd much rather keep my disks stored safe in what is a fairly robost enclosure and attach an external drive. Removes the risk or loosing a disk, wearing out connectors, static on the circuitry, magnetic interference, inserting in the wrong slot, formatting the wrong drive, dropping it, etc.

[kizer_rezik]

Sorry I thought I was kinda clear, but re-reading what I typed I kinda confused myself.

My thoughts are instead of backing up from one drive to ther other internally with the NAS from Volume_1 to Volume_2, I would keep a backup offline on a shelf so I could expand my NAS from (2) 1.5TB drives = 1.5TB manually copied to each other to (2) 1.5TB = 3TB.

So from what I'm guessing everybody is saying I should maybe buy (2) 1.5TB drives and a Sata dock and copy Volume_1 to a Sata drive shelf it, then format Volume_2 and then copy its future content to a blank via the Sata dock.

My ultimate goal is to boost my available space to 3TB with backups, but keep the filing system in a manner that I don't waste tons of space formating the offline backups to Fat32 or something of the sort because they use up a lot of available space opposed to linux.

I suppose worst case my NAS burst into flames and I have offline backups that are portable enough that I can just use a USB cable or eSata cable and dump back into a new NAS.

[gunrunnerjohn]

Do what I did.  Buy a DNS-321 and stick the other two drives into that one.  Once a week I have an automated backup copy from my DNS-323 to the DNS-321 using Beyond Compare to synchronize the two NAS units.

I have them in RAID-1 configuration, but it would work the same if you just use them in a standard no-RAID configuration.

[fordem]

User preference I guess. It just dosen't feel right to intentionally pull disks out of a RAID configuration. It's like pulling a carpet from underneath a table with all your fine china on. I guess it's not so bad if you are not running an array. But even so, I'd much rather keep my disks stored safe in what is a fairly robost enclosure and attach an external drive. Removes the risk or loosing a disk, wearing out connectors, static on the circuitry, magnetic interference, inserting in the wrong slot, formatting the wrong drive, dropping it, etc.

First - if I might be permitted to point out - my earlier post specifically suggests that disk not be removed from a RAID configuration - nevertheless - speaking as one who has on countless occasions, simply yanked disks out of a RAID array, there is no harm in it, provided that the connectors were designed to support hot removal, which by the way SATA connectors are.  The process is no more traumatic (to the array and the data contained therein) than if a disk had failed.

To compare this to a table with your fine china - well - if the table had been designed to withstand the carpet being yanked in the same way as a RAID array is designed to withstand a disk failure - there would probably be no harm in that either.

All of the other issues you raised are either non issues or user preference.

- wearing out the connectors, static on the circuitry - as mentioned earlier, the SATA connectos are designed to cope with this.

- magnetic interference - not only is the disk already in an enclosure that shields it from external magnetic fields, the enclosure also contains some of the strongest permanent magnets known to man, and shields external objects from those fields.

- loosing  and/or dropping the disk - that can happen with an external enclosure

- inserting it in the wrong slot - you do have to take some care in what you do, don't you?  Is this any more difficult that connecting the wrong external drive to a USB connector?

Take a look at my earlier post - one of the devices I mentioned was the Imation Odyssey - this is nothing more than a laptop SATA drive in a plastic case, that you insert into a "dock" - essentially a USB-SATA interface, that connects to the host computer via USB.

I'm talking about a successful commercially available product from one of the leading manufacturers in magnetic media, with all but one of your perceived shortcomings - it really is not that challenging or dangerous.

[gunrunnerjohn]

Regardless, I still see this as a bad idea.

[hilaireg]

I have to agree with gunrunnerjohn on this one; HDD's installed in a RAID configuration aren't meant to be removed until the HDD member fails.

Use a 2nd NAS or a few USB HDD's enclosures as a backup solution.

Cheers,

[kizer_rezik]

I think some are confused. I'm not running a Raid Configuration just two simple disks in the same NAS manually copying to each other as I see fit. I could of ran some scripts either by hacking the NAS or using my own network, but I decided I'd rather manually do it so I can check things now and then opposed to relying on something that if it failed would totally trash things. I did intend on powering down my unit. The idea of hotswaping something that well more than likely is not hot swapable is a bad idea.

From the opinions I think I'll just create some offline backups and avoid tinkering with the Drives because they work flawlessly now and I don't think messing with them is really a good idea. I looked at a few sata docks today and they appear to be rather reasonable.

Thanks everybody.

[gunrunnerjohn]

I have a pair of 500gig drives in SATA <-> USB enclosures that are my secondary backup devices.  Works just fine, and I never have to open up the NAS units and tinker with them.

[fordem]

I have to agree with gunrunnerjohn on this one; HDD's installed in a RAID configuration aren't meant to be removed the HDD member fails.

Use a 2nd NAS or a few USB HDD's enclosures as a backup solution.

Cheers,

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that removing disks from a RAID configuration is bad idea - however - when the disks are not in an array, as is the case here, those potential issues are removed.