Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ryu Connor]

DGL-4500 with firmware 1.13.  WPA2 Only, AES

2x DWA-160 Adapters running 1.2.2.0 Ralink drivers (09/05/2008) on XP MCE 2005 SP3.

1x Intel 4965AGN running 12.0.4.0 on Vista64.

Chipsets:

AMD/ATI Xpress 200M hosts a DWA-150

Intel 915M hosts a DWA-150

Intel 965M hosts a 4965AGN

---

When the DGL-4500 is set to 5GHz N and the 40 channel DWA-160 adapters experience frequent and random disconnects under load.  The DGL-4500 log only shows the DWA-160 adapters initializing an associating; never a drop.  The Intel 4965AGN adapter handles the situation with no errors.

When the DGL-4500 is set to 5GHz N and the Auto 20/40 channel the DWA-160 adapters experience less frequent and random disconnects under load.  The DGL-4500 log only shows the DWA-160 adapters initializing an associating; never a drop.  Performance increases moderately versus 40 only.  The Intel 4965AGN adapter handles the situation with no errors.

When the DGL-4500 is set to 5GHz N and the 20 channel the DWA-160 adapters experience even less frequent and random disconnects under load, but still eventually fail.  The DGL-4500 log only shows the DWA-160 adapters initializing an associating; never a drop.   Performance increases slightly versus Auto 20/40 only (and is frankly amazing).  The Intel 4965AGN adapter handles the situation with no errors.

When the DGL-4500 is set to 5GHz A, which apparently defaults to the 20 channel, the DWA-160 adapters are rock steady solid and stable.  Performance decreases greatly versus any of the previous N selections.  The Intel 4965AGN adapter handles the situation with no errors.

I have tried returning/replacing one of the DWA-160 models with the store and found identical behavior so I have no reason to believe the adapters defective.

The DWA-160 disconnection behavior was also experienced on DGL-4500 Firmware before I upgraded.  I did not test that scenario as thoroughly.

The DGL-4500 is reporting signal strength of 40 to 60% to all three adapters.

I am unclear on how to proceed from here.  Obviously I could simply revert to 5GHz A and have the stability I seek, but the 5GHz N throughput is just stunning and I want it. 

None of the hardware seems defective so I am unclear on if this is a software issue with the DGL-4500, the DWA-160 drivers, both, or environmental.  Of course all that begs the question why the 4965AGN is behaving so well.

[mtf612]

Vista 64 bit , 2.4 core duo , 4 gb ram , nvidia 8400 gs, - Dell xps 1330

Used to have a 4965agn with both 32bit and 64bit. Frequently had disconnects and had to get real close to become connected. Often my adapter can find the router, but it will disconnect. The router's log says it was deauthenticated. Now I am still on x64 but I upgraded to the intel 5300 with 2.14   ... still disconects when im to "far" (which is only 75 feet or so) and the connection is meh.

The network is on channel 36 (5.18) and it is 20/40 auto . Every device supports 40mhz, so often the connection is 40mhz anyway. I am using 400ns , WMM enables, WISH , and the remaining settings (wifi wise) at default- wifi protect is off btw.  I am using WPA-2 with AES and everything works fine. When im only 15 feet away with line of sight, the connection hits 300mbps, although the 5300 supports 450mbps, but a few walls or some distance kills the connection. I have tried everything, how can i make the connection stop dropping ?!? BTW never touched mac filter.

[arod]

I would go with environmental factors. Is there a cordless phones in the house? If so, disconnect the power from the base of the phone and test again. Also, thickness of walls and mirrors play a factor as well.

[Ryu Connor]

I had a chance to test a few more scenarios last night.  Quick recap

5GHz A = Good - No disconnects
5GHz N = Bad - Disconnects
5GHz A & N = Bad - Disconnects

2.4GHz N = Good - No disconnects and stronger signal strength versus A

2.4GHz N manages about 36Mbps on large file transfers.  It does okay at streaming large bit rate video, but still stutters some.  An issue I don't see on 5GHz N.  Of course 5N was also pushing 100Base like speeds.

I'm surrounded by other 2.4GHz networks though, largely the reason I wanted to shift to 5GHz.  The Windows networking properties shows at least nine other networks it can see.  No telling how many more have the broadcast SSID off.

I have no cordless phones of my own (only two 3G iPhones operating in Edge), but living in an apartment it is possible that the neighbors do.  There are some walls and even one mirror in the way of the DGL-4500 and the computers with the adapters, but there is also at least one LOS path from the router to the adapters that is unobstructed from my desk.

I forgot to mention it yesterday, but I've also carried the laptop and the DWA-160 into the room with the DGL-4500 and sat down and tested within two feet using 5GHz N.  The Adapter still lost connection randomly.

I haven't had a chance to test how 2.4G, 2.4 B, G, and N mixed behave.  I can do that if it would help, but from my perspective this is beginning to more and more look like some sort of driver or firmware issue between the DGL-4500 and the DWA-160.

How is that 5GHz A and 2.4GHz N can maintain stability, but any use of 5GHz N (be it mixed, alone, and regardless of distance) result in such difficulty?

FWIW: I have two 1522 arriving this week.  I had considering using one in AP mode to host G based devices (iPhones and visiting friends) and having the other bridge back to the DGL-4500 to get the Wii and PS3 onto the network while maintaining 5GHz N for the wireless.

If it would help the testing scenario any, I'm considering leaving the DGL-4500 as the G device and having the two 1522 generate and bridge the 5GHz N network.

IIRC the 1522 is based on Ralink ICs, the same as the DWA-160 Rev B.  If 5GHz N behavior suddenly changes that would rule out environmental as a factor, yes?

[Lycan]

The reason for the N disconnecting on the 5ghz range is all 3 antennas are required for N to operate properly. If the router loses signal on one antenna the N signal is broken and the connection will drop.

[Ryu Connor]

That works as an explanation for drops in areas outside of the room with the DGL-4500, but would it apply while sitting right in front of the router?

As I can recreate the drops while within two feet of the DGL-4500.

I guess I'll have to see how the 1522 changes or doesn't change things before I can really add anymore info to this.

[Ryu Connor]

As a very fast recap the DGL-4500 and DWA-160 have had the following interaction *regardless* of distance.

5GHz N - Drops
5GHz Mixed - Drops
5GHz A - Stable
2.4GHz N - Stable

Again, this occurs at both point blank range in front of the router and at any distance.

--------

The two DAP-1522 arrived.

The DGL-4500 was set to 2.4GHz G only, firmware 1.13, WPA2 only AES, and a unique SSID.

DAP-1522(1) was set to AP mode, firmware 1.10, Dynamic IP, connected to the Ethernet of the DGL-4500, in 5GHz N only, WPA2 only AES, with a unique SSID.

DAP-1522(2) was set to Bridge mode, firmware 1.10, Dynamic IP, connected to the Wireless of DAP-1522(1), in 5GHz N only, WPA2 only AES.

The bridge is ~thirty feet away from DAP-1522(1) with mild obstruction between (three thin walls and one mirror).

All drops in connectivity stopped.  The DWA-160 (XP driver 1.2.2.0, 09/05/2008) and the DAP-1522 have no compatibility issues (of course both are made by Ralink).

The DAP-1522 is not as fast as the DGL-4500 was in 5GHz N, but the DGL-4500 is useless no matter how fast it is if it cannot maintain a stable connection.

I submit that you have a bug between the DWA-160 and the DGL-4500 that needs to be submitted to the PM.

[FromAtoN]

The reason for the N disconnecting on the 5ghz range is all 3 antennas are required for N to operate properly. If the router loses signal on one antenna the N signal is broken and the connection will drop.

Ryu Connor did a great job spelling out the problem I and others are coming up with.  I stated this long ago and since I was the lone minority I was pretty much ignored.  I'm not the only one and sure there are plenty others.  I purchased the 4500/160s combo for N/5GHz.  Now I'm forced to use N/2.4GHz because it just works, but not as fast.  Pretty sad when you consider I have lots of neighbors running at 2.4GHz and also have other equipment in-house on that freq.

Either the 4500, 160 or both are broken for that combo.  Now is that a flaw with D-Link's implementation or just a flaw with the N spec?

[Lycan]

It's neither. It's the nature of 5ghz wireless. It's not desgined for indoor use. Microsoft required us to have a 5ghz radio on our new routers to get Vista Certified logo. 5ghz is an outdoor band, it has major penetration issues.
So if you loose connection on one antenna then your N connection will drop. Couple that with a USB based client adapter with no real output and no external antenna and you have a issue.

[FromAtoN]

It's neither. It's the nature of 5ghz wireless. It's not desgined for indoor use. Microsoft required us to have a 5ghz radio on our new routers to get Vista Certified logo. 5ghz is an outdoor band, it has major penetration issues.
So if you loose connection on one antenna then your N connection will drop. Couple that with a USB based client adapter with no real output and no external antenna and you have a issue.

A uses 5GHz as well and I haven't had problems since it came out.  The band is limited in power due to radar in use and therefore it is supposed to be low power and indoor.  Then you agree that the DWA-160 is a flawed design because it is USB.  Where are the 5GHz cardbus cards to correct this?

[Lycan]

The issue is A only requires a single connection. N requires 3 connections. If one is lost the connection dies.

[qtmod]

Is there any way to make a "pringles can" antenna or something that would increase or focus the DWA-160's antenna capabilities?  I've tried a medium sized stainless steel bowl, which actually sort of works a small bit better than just sitting it on my desk.  My router is upstairs one floor.

Again, this is sad since I spent roughly $160 on the DGL-4500 and nearly $300 for the DWA-160's (I have three adapters, one for each PC in the house).  You'd think almost $500 later I would have a good connection.  Sadly no.

Also, to be told by a Dlink moderator here that 5.0ghz was created for outdoor use makes me a sad camper.

[Lycan]

USB = 5watts and a maximum of 500mA.

[Reinvented]

Repeaters...

[Lycan]

you can't repeat N.