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Author Topic: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?  (Read 8394 times)

Dee888

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Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« on: March 21, 2011, 08:34:14 PM »

Sorry, I'm new to the NAS gear. The DNS-323 is my first one, and my first post to the site.

I don't know the major differences between Raid 1-5 or any of the other options I have with a two bay storage drive. In my world all that makes me feel all fuzzy and safe inside is mirroring. If I get two 2 TB HDD or 1.5 TB HDD it should be enough to handle everything I'll need for a couple years at least. And all I would have to worry about would be replacing an HDD if one goes out....hopefully before the second goes out. What am I missing out on with RAID and the other options. And is mirroring truly the safest way to go? I'll be buying the two HDD's later this week. All the help, advice and comments are very appreciated.

Thanks,
Dee
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Eric-Tom

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Re: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2011, 10:54:05 PM »

I am new to this too... but apparently RAID 1 doesn't mean your data will be safe. Having Standard configuration with two drive and mirroring your data is much better.

Having said that, I would like to know if there is an easy way to copy data from Volume_1 to Volume_2 (such as automatic backup) when the disks are NOT in RAID, but in standard config?

Can someone who is knowledgeable can help us please????
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DIR-825(Main Router)
DIR-655(Used as a wireless access point to extend the coverage)
DGS-1005G 5-Port Gigabit Desktop Switch
DNS-323 NAS with 2 WD 1.5TB in Standard 2 volume set up
PS3, my own server and 5 other computers on the network with BlackBerry 9700 and iPod on wifi

fordem

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Re: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 04:24:20 AM »

The only way to keep your data safe is to back it up - mirroring also known as RAID1 is NOT a form of backup, it's purpose is high availability - to reduce or eliminate the downtime that results from a failed drive.

By the way - Eric-Tom - there is no way to have a "standard configuration with two drives and mirroring the data".
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RAID1 is for disk redundancy - NOT data backup - don't confuse the two.

ChosenGSR

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Re: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 08:26:29 AM »

IMHO you should research the limitations of RAID1 and then make the decision whether you're comfortable with RAID1 acting as your "backup", although the purists will tell you it's it no way a backup.

I am not worried about user error, viruses etc.  I am comfortable with it being my only backup.  My only concern is physical drive failure.
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dosborne

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Re: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 09:47:06 AM »

Mirroring defintely has a purpose and use. It all depends on what you are preventing against. Personally, I have 2 NAS units. One is mirrored. The other serves as a backup device. I should be covered for most eventualities as long as the home doesn't cave in.
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3 x DNS-323 with 2 x 2TB WD Drives each for a total of 12 TB Storage and Backup. Running DLink Firmware v1.08 and Fonz Fun Plug (FFP) v0.5 for improved software support.

chriso

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Re: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 12:49:22 PM »

Well RAID 1 (Mirroring) isn't just about downtime (even though that is usually its main purpose for something that needs to be up all the time).

You need to understand how data loss happens and what steps can help to prevent it.
Here are a few of the major ones:

1) User deletes data.
2) Program deletes data. (this includes viruses)
3) Disk fails.
4) Disk controller or other hardware other then drive fails destroys data (writing to both drives), include power loss in here too.
5) Physical damage, like NAS dropped.
6) Physical damage, like house burns down.

Which one(s) of these will mirrored drives help?  On #3 (and maybe #5 since being two drives one might get lucky and not be damaged, but it certainly is meant to protect against this)

What is protected by a backup, and what are the limitations?
Backups can protect against all of the above, within certain limitations.
If you do backups once a day. Then clearly you can lose up to one day's worth of data.
So frequency of backup matters.
For either 5 or 6 you need your data to be backed in a physically different location.  And in the case of 6 it can't be in your house (and extended this what happens in a disaster?).  Having two NASes should help with #5 provided they are both and the same table that gets tipped over.  But clearly for 6 you need offsite backup.  And again how often or how much is going to factor into this.  As in up link speed of a network is much slower then down speed, and much slower then local network, and of course hard drive speed.  So if there is a huge amount of data to transfer you might not have enough time in the day to do it.  Also you have to factor in the cost of offline storage so given this you might only backup what is really important to you.

One of the things I think factors into this is the likelihood of something happening.

I can tell you by far that the number one cause of data loss is the user(s).
This is mostly done with the running the wrong command or such, but I will also throw in the user dropping the NAS/machine or what not.

Then hard drive failures (On my personal machines I believe I have lost about 2 drives in 35+ years, at working with maintaining dozens of build servers at a time, each with multiple hard drives, maybe a half a dozen).  Then again there was a product we put out and the manufacture clearly had a problem, because a one year one in four machines had a hard drive failure (out of 4 drives) (We dropped that manufacture of hard drives and never had the problem again).

I have only seen a couple of times hard drive controllers have failed and caused data loss (usually they fail without writing bad stuff to the drive).

That is from 35+ years of experience with computers.

For my own data.
All personal data is on the DNS-323 (note that if your data is on a local drive and you backup to the NAS, then you have two copies already, but in my case the data on the DNS-323 is the first copy)
Once a night I backup the data to the second drive in the DNS-323.
Once a night I backup the data to offline storage.

Occasionally I will backup the second drive to another drive through the USB port.

Where can I loses data?  Basically any data that was created since the last backup might be lost.

That is fine with me.  And actually my data like software development is stored in SVN, so I have another copy of it.

One other source of real loss of data I should point out.  Either because of user error, or because of problems with hardware, people have had the situation that a hard drive goes down, they think they are safe because they mirror, but in the process of "recovering" they destroy the data on the second drive.

One of the things that strikes me all the time is that that even when people realize that they need to do backups (or mirroring) they forget to see if they even can recover the data.  Like the cases where I saw people back up to tapes, and then when they lost data and went to those tapes they found they couldn't recover it because the backup tapes had either been worn out or the backup done wrong.

When you have something like a hard drive fail it is a stressful time, and if you have never rebuilt a drive you can make fatal mistakes.  Learning how to restore your data after you have had data loss is a really bad time to learn.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 05:24:54 PM by chriso »
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McPillager

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Re: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 01:08:59 PM »

Hello and welcome to the dns-323. I think it is a fine NAS solution and I believe you will come to the same conclusion as time goes by.

As far as data security is concerned, fordem is right. RAID is not a form of backup and shouldn't ever be considered as one.

If you search this forum you'll find a handfull of people having lost their RAID-stored data because of many various reasons such as power failures, raid errors, disk failures (e.g. one of the two disks fails) and human errors (e.g. removing one of the two disks for whatever reason then realising the raid is all messed up etc).

So, what is the safest way?

The answer is backup to offline media! That is, your best bet is a copy of all your data in to a CD, DVD or (most possibly) an external (usb) disk. Some people even have two NAS devices where the latter is used only to backup the data of the former and is kept offline and off power most of the time. You can use the backup software of your liking, of course. After having backed everything up, unplug the backup device and store it in a safe place. And this is the safest way by far :)
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fordem

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Re: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 04:12:09 AM »

Some one, some time, some where heard another one say that RAID-1 is not a backup. So this whole purist vs. normal (for lack of a better term) debate started.

The debate starts when the first "newbie" loses data because they did not backup the RAID1 array and then starts to whine & ***** about RAID1 and whatever hardware being unreliable.

Quote
RAID-1 is not a backup if we are ONLY referring to the volume your OS and DATA resides in, most likely inside your PC.

but

RAID-1 is indeed a backup (actually two identical backups) if it the volume exists not in your PC but in a separate device,  (another PC, a NAS, etc) and your OS and DATA is regularly being backed up in there.

so

RAID-1 provides 1:1 redundancy and redundant data on a device other than your PC can be safely regarded as backed up data. But it does so at at double the cost (two vs. single drive). But it is not bulletproof. Just do not let your corrupt data from your PC overwrite the good data in your backup NAS with RAID-1.

Look again - in this scenario you have made a backup of the data in the PC to a RAID1 array - triple cost in this case, because you have the data in three places - once on the PC and twice on your backup device.

Think very carefully about this - if your main data store in the PC does not use RAID1, and it fails, you're going to have to stop working whilst you sort it out and then copy the data back from your RAID1 backup - having redundant disks isn't doing you much good there - is it?
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RAID1 is for disk redundancy - NOT data backup - don't confuse the two.

McPillager

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Re: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 01:46:56 PM »

The above general discussion is enlightening but the topic's context is much more specific. And under that context the answer is no, raid1 is not the safest way.
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pearljam45

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Re: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2011, 02:48:25 PM »

I keep cheaper, lower performance (ie: Green) drives in my primary PC and backup through the network regularly. Yes, it's a little slow if you're copying a lot... especially if you're not running a gigabit network.

For a one time huge transfer, it's much faster to temporarily install the NAS drive into your PC and transfer there. But be careful, you'll need to run something like http://www.ext2fsd.com/ to access the EXT2/3 formatted drive.

PJ
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DimiPana

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Re: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 03:21:57 PM »

The above general discussion is enlightening but the topic's context is much more specific. And under that context the answer is no, raid1 is not the safest way.

I have to admit that you are right! I was carried away and I do apologize for that. I have removed my two -out of context- posts. Finally, as a courtesy to all, may I please request that you tell us which is the safest way [of not losing data]?
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Dee888

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Re: Is mirroring the safest way of not losing data?
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2011, 09:59:42 AM »

Thank you to everyone who contributed! This was VERY informative to me and I have learned a lot! Once I get everything up and running I'll try to post exactly which route I took with detail.

Thanks again to everyone!
Dee
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