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[jb33zy]

Is anyone doing anything interesting to back this unit up? I am using mirroring which gives me some comfort, however nothing like my Windows 2003 server (which I had to retire) with shadow copies did. I'm thinking of just biting the bullet and attaching an external USB drive to my laptop and once a week doing a copy... very very lame! I wish the 321 could do some sort of external backup.

[fordem]

Don't get too comfortable with mirroring, it's not a backup, as you will find out the first time you (or someone else) "accidently" delete a file.

[jb33zy]

I think that's what this post is about! I have mirroring but that only protects from hardware failure. I mention shadow copies... did you read the post?

I see you have mention of this in your sig. Do you feel like you are on a mission to warn everyone about the limitations of RAID 1? If that makes you feel important by all means keep up the good work!

[cdkone]

Further question on backup -- realizing that the 321 is not a backup system per se, can the system be used with traditional backup software such as SmartSync Pro to perform regular backup sessions.. If so then you would have the data in 3 places -- on your original PC, and on the two drives in the 321. Does this make sense?

[fordem]

jb33zy - how about you read so more and this time look to see the number of people who don't understand the true purpose of RAID1, those who are complaining because they had RAID1 and still lost their data - my mission is to educate them.

cdkone - let's look at backup in general.

Traditionally backups have been done to removable media - tape, diskette, etc. - and backups are done to multiple sets of media used in some form of rotation - for example, grandfather, father, son - if anything happens to one set of media, there are two other, slightly older backups that can be restored, there may be some data loss, but you can control that through the selection of the rotation used.

If the backup drive fails, you can replace the drive and insert the media and get access to the backup.

Now - you can use the DNS-321 for backup purposes, in what is known as disk-to-disk or d2d - BUT - there are risks involved.  First you can create three backup media sets and use a grandfather, father, son rotation - but - since they are on the same physical disk - what happens if there is a disk failure - you lose all of your backups.  If you use RAID1 that will minimize the possibility of losing all of the backup data.

It is not at all unusual in the corporate world to see NAS servers, with RAID, being used as D2D targets.

[djy8131]

I back it up to a simple external drive on my PC once a week.  I use xcopy and tell it to only back up the newest files.  Seems to work great except the first time you run it, it takes a long time.

[jb33zy]

How about you read some more you annoying twit? Who the heck are you to tell people what to do and what to read? Who deamed you responsible for giving out advice on RAID 1? I mentioned I had mirroring and am looking for a good backup solution for this system. IT_DOESNT_HAVE_ONE!

This system needs what Windows 2003 has: shadow copies. Samba has a version of it as well that I think would work here. If they could implement this the system would step up in quality 10-fold.

jb33zy - how about you read so more and this time look to see the number of people who don't understand the true purpose of RAID1, those who are complaining because they had RAID1 and still lost their data - my mission is to educate them.

cdkone - let's look at backup in general.

Traditionally backups have been done to removable media - tape, diskette, etc. - and backups are done to multiple sets of media used in some form of rotation - for example, grandfather, father, son - if anything happens to one set of media, there are two other, slightly older backups that can be restored, there may be some data loss, but you can control that through the selection of the rotation used.

If the backup drive fails, you can replace the drive and insert the media and get access to the backup.

Now - you can use the DNS-321 for backup purposes, in what is known as disk-to-disk or d2d - BUT - there are risks involved.  First you can create three backup media sets and use a grandfather, father, son rotation - but - since they are on the same physical disk - what happens if there is a disk failure - you lose all of your backups.  If you use RAID1 that will minimize the possibility of losing all of the backup data.

It is not at all unusual in the corporate world to see NAS servers, with RAID, being used as D2D targets.

[fordem]

Aren't you a little confused?  Shadow copies aren't backup either.

Two questions for you ...

1 - with Server 2003, where are the shadow copies stored?
2 - what happens to the shadow copy if the drive fails?

[mig]

How about you read some more you annoying twit? Who the heck are you to tell people what to do and what to read? Who deamed you responsible for giving out advice on RAID 1? I mentioned I had mirroring and am looking for a good backup solution for this system. IT_DOESNT_HAVE_ONE!

This system needs what Windows 2003 has: shadow copies. Samba has a version of it as well that I think would work here. If they could implement this the system would step up in quality 10-fold.

Well, it seems that (from: http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/VFS.html#id2644800)
to implement the (Microsoft proprietary) "shadow copy" in Samba you need:

 - kernel support for Logical Volume Management (LVM)
 - and a file system that supports freezing and buffering writes to it until the
   file system is thawed again, such as XFS.

Neither of these packages are currently supported on the DNS-321 at this time and might
be large resource drains on the limited RAM and CPU in the DNS-321.

Furthermore, there is a warning about the intent of shadow copy in the samba docs;
which might give you cause to re-think your preference for using shadow copy as
a "good backup solution" for your data.

Warning

THIS IS NOT A BACKUP, ARCHIVAL, OR VERSION CONTROL SOLUTION!

With Samba or Windows servers, shadow_copy is designed to be an end-user tool only. It does not replace or enhance your backup and archival solutions and should in no way be considered as such. Additionally, if you need version control, implement a version control system. You have been warned.

Under the hood, the DNS-321, runs Linux.  There are a few, quite elegant, snapshot style,
backup techniques available for Linux systems.  You might want to look at rsnapshot (www.rsnapshot.org) for starters, that could give you the level of comfort you are looking for.

Finally, if you really expect to be taken seriously on this forum, try to refrain from the
flaming name calling.  You are more likely to get help, if your posts are respectful.

[jb33zy]

I'm not th eleast bit confused about shadow copies and what they are for. It would be a nice feature. With mirroring you have another safe guard. They are all safe guards.

True backup would be some kind of offsite migration, but I don't see that happening. At least with some form of shadow copies and mirroring most people would consider that fairly sufficient for their needs.

I've just started backing up files to a USB drive. I'd like to see a USB port on these things that is for USB drives and a scheduler on the system to migrate to the USB drive. Every device I see with one of these USB ports it's for copying from the USB to the NAS! Exactly the opposite of what I'm after.

Aren't you a little confused?  Shadow copies aren't backup either.

Two questions for you ...

1 - with Server 2003, where are the shadow copies stored?
2 - what happens to the shadow copy if the drive fails?

[jb33zy]

Look at my ORIGINAL POST. I simply asked if anyone was doing anything interesting with regards to backup. In my original post I make it pretty clear that I'm doing mirroring (to protect from hardware failure) but am looking for a real back up solution or something. The only worthwhile response on this whole post is from the member who mentions XCOPY. The rest of these posts are just spouting non-sense that has nothing to do with what this thread is about. I never once said "Mirroring gives me complete confidence" or "shadow copies give me complete confidence" did I?

Like I said, I am just going to backup to a USB drive attached to my laptop. It's not a very good solution but it does give me some protection from corruption, deletion, etc. I find it strange these devices don't have good backup solutions. When I went looking for my home NAS device I really wasn't sure which one to get, none really mention backups but I assumed there had to be some way to do them. At least the HP Home Media server seems to have them, from scheduling backups to external drives to built-in shadow copies and mirroring capabilities. It's $400.00 though as apposed to this device which I got for $120.00. Overrall I'm happy with it though.

Finally, if you really expect to be taken seriously on this forum, try to refrain from the
flaming name calling.  You are more likely to get help, if your posts are respectful.

[mig]

...but am looking for a real back up solution or something...

Alright, if you can describe what your requirements would be for a "real
backup solution", maybe someone could suggest a strategy.

Looking at the I/O capabilities of the DNS-321, it only has the SATA and Ethernet. 
Since the SATA is being used for RAID1, that leaves the Ethernet for backup. 
For any backup,  you are going to have to have another device with Ethernet to
transfer your data.  Since, D-Link did not provide a way to push the data to another
device, the other device needs to pull the data off the DNS-321 via Ethernet.

From my perspective, any successful backup solution has to be compatable with
thoes limitation of the DNS-321, and your USB drive connected to a laptop seem to
work within the DNS-321's limitations.  Why do you think your USB/laptop backup
is "not a very good solution"?

[jb33zy]

It isn't a good solution because it requires manual intervention. I have to manually connect the drive to my laptop, then manually copy files. It's lame. I want set it and forget it and I realize that I got the wrong device for that.

Like I said though I'm happy with it and am not going to return it. In fact I just ordered the DSM-520 (or whatever it's called) to extend to my TV. I would like to see this issue addressed with other NAS devices or future upgrades. Possibly a feature you could subscribe to some online backup storage and then log into the NAS, set up your account information, select what gets migrated to the service and at what time intervals and let it take over from there.

[mig]

Possibly a feature you could subscribe to some online backup storage and then log into the NAS, set up your account information, select what gets migrated to the service and at what time intervals and let it take over from there.

This is an interesting idea to me.  Which online backup storage services would you
consider viable for this type of function?

[ceyko]

So, I have share setup on my main desktop that the DNS-321 copies/etc stuff over to using sync toys 2.0.  I do it manually since I also use the DNS-321's NFS feature for a bunch of VMs.  However, I suppose if you wanted to automate it you could use the (I think) CLI portion of sync toys and schedule the tasks. 

However, the drawback to that is AFAIK sync toys will basically mirror what is on the drive already.  So - as mentioned if something is nuked from the DNS-321, it'll also get nuked on the DNS. HOWEVER, if you were to just do it weekly, or every other day you should have plenty of time to resolve the issue via your last backup and drive on.

Also, another reason to not rely on mirroring is due to the chassis AND its OS.  I've had expensive NASs in the past that lost my data (around 4 times).  Hence me backing up my backups.