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[Marsmars]

I bought the DIR 645 a few months ago as a replacement for my very old DIR 655 which gave me not enough range to cover the house.

The 645 was delivered with firmware 1.01.

At first sight, the 645 compared to the 655 was superb:

• range much much much better, even with power output set to low!!
• although signal % lower, rate is in most cases much higher

However, all these nice things were useless due to:

• connection dropouts
• browsing just stalls and sometimes continues after 5 to 30 seconds

After searching the internet I found the 1.02B11 EU version.  I installed that version, and did a factory reset before and after the update.

The connection dropouts seem to have disappeared, but the stalls are still there and are mainly seen on iMacs...
The Safari progress bar just stops very early in the page loading process. You have to refresh the page multiple times before it finally loads.
Switching to the 655 or a linksys ap makes the problems disappear immediately, so it must be the 645...

I have tried all the suggested settings from furrynutz, but nothing helps.
I have also checked the settings with the 655, made them even identical, but that didn't help either.

Am about to return this thing as I'm out of options and it simply must work!

[FurryNutz]

Welcome!

What region are you located?
Are you wired or wireless connected to the router?

What ISP Service do you have? Cable or DSL?
What ISP Modem do you have? Stand Alone or built in router?
What ISP Modem make and model do you have?
If this modem has a built in router, it's best to bridge the modem. Having 2 routers on the same line can cause connection problems.
To tell if the modem is bridged or not, look at the routers web page, Status/Device Info/Wan Section, if there is a 192.168.0.# address in the WAN IP address field, then the modem is not bridged.
If the modem can't be bridged then see if the modem has a DMZ option and input the IP address the router gets from the modem and put that into the modems DMZ.

Some things to try:
Turn off ALL QoS or Disable Traffic Shaping (DIR only) GameFuel (DGL only and if ON.) options. Advanced/QoS or Gamefuel.
Turn off Advanced DNS Services if you have this option under Setup/Internet/Manual.
Turn on DNS Relay under Setup/Networking.
Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router. Setup/Networking
Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address.
Set Firewall settings to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP under Advanced/Firewall.
Enable uPnP and Multi-cast Streaming under Advanced/Networking.

What wireless modes are you using? Under Setup/Wireless/Manual.
Try single mode G or N or mixed G and N?
Channel Width set for Auto 20/40Mhz or try 20Mhz only.
Try setting a manual channel to a open or unused channel.
What security mode are you using? Preferred security is WPA-Personal. WPA2/AES Only. Some WiFi adapters don't support AES, so you might want to try TPIK only or Auto.
What wireless devices do you have connected?
Any cordless house phones?
Any other WiFi routers in the area? Use InSSIDer to find out.
Turn off Short GI, WLAN Partition and Extra Wireless Protection if you have it. Under Advanced/Advanced Wireless.

Turn off all anti virus and firewall programs on PC while testing. 3rd party firewalls are not generally needed when using routers as they are effective on blocking malicious inbound traffic.
Turn off all devices accept for one wired PC while testing.

Check cable between Modem and Router, swap out to be sure. Cat6 is recommended.

[Marsmars]

Welcome!

Thank you 

What region are you located?
Are you wired or wireless connected to the router?

What ISP Service do you have? Cable or DSL?
What ISP Modem do you have? Stand Alone or built in router?
What ISP Modem make and model do you have?
If this modem has a built in router, it's best to bridge the modem. Having 2 routers on the same line can cause connection problems.
To tell if the modem is bridged or not, look at the routers web page, Status/Device Info/Wan Section, if there is a 192.168.0.# address in the WAN IP address field, then the modem is not bridged.
If the modem can't be bridged then see if the modem has a DMZ option and input the IP address the router gets from the modem and put that into the modems DMZ.

Answers:

• I'm in Europe, the Netherlands to be exact.
• My internet connection is ADSL, using a Zyxel modem. Modem is bridged and connected to my LAN, consisting of several switches (Asus / D-Link). Both WLAN AP's (655 and 645) are connected as LAN devices (WLAN port is not used)

Some things to try:
Turn off ALL QoS or Disable Traffic Shaping (DIR only) GameFuel (DGL only and if ON.) options. Advanced/QoS or Gamefuel.
Turn off Advanced DNS Services if you have this option under Setup/Internet/Manual.
Turn on DNS Relay under Setup/Networking.
Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router. Setup/Networking
Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address.
Set Firewall settings to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP under Advanced/Firewall.
Enable uPnP and Multi-cast Streaming under Advanced/Networking.

Answers:

• I already tried all of these options. None solved the problem, or don't work (see below).
• On the 655 any of these settings give me a working internet/LAN connection.
• My Zyxel modem is my DHCP server, so DHCP is disabled in both WLAN AP's.

What wireless modes are you using? Under Setup/Wireless/Manual.
Try single mode G or N or mixed G and N?
Channel Width set for Auto 20/40Mhz or try 20Mhz only.
Try setting a manual channel to a open or unused channel.
What security mode are you using? Preferred security is WPA-Personal. WPA2/AES Only. Some WiFi adapters don't support AES, so you might want to try TPIK only or Auto.
What wireless devices do you have connected?
Any other WiFi routers in the area? Use InSSIDer to find out.
Turn off Short GI, WLAN Partition and Extra Wireless Protection if you have it. Under Advanced/Advanced Wireless.

Answers:

• I have a bunch of G and N devices, so I'm using the mixed G/N setting (Same setting as 655).
• Channel width is set to Auto on both AP's
• Manual / Autoscan gives me exact same results with 1.02. Manual setting solved some of the connection problems in 1.01 though.
• Security mode is WPA2/AES Only. Changing this setting doesn't help for the 645 problems.
  
• There are several (very weak according to InSSIDer) WLAN AP's in the area. In the 1.02 firmware the setting 20/40Mhz coexistence doesn't make a difference apart from the connection speed. I find the 150MBit connection much more stable in terms of throughput than the 300MBit.
  

.
In all cases, be aware that my 655 simply works (using firmware 1.11EU), but has some range problems which the 645 should solve. It does that, but also makes browsing the internet annoying...

Besides this problem, some things don't seem to work, but also don't really bother me:

• Guest zone doesn't work as I don't use the WAN connection. However there is some tickbox that (as I understand) should connect the guest with the normal network, however it doesn't...
• DNS relay tickbox doens't work. This should give me the IP adres of the AP instead of the DNS from the ADSL modem, but I always get the DNS list of the ADSL modem...
• Enabling QOS gives me weird results (slow LAN connections), but I never used that on the 655, so don't miss it either on the 645.
• When I change the output power no client can connect anymore to the 645 until I power down/up the AP.
• Some settings (can't remember which ones) don't take effect after saving. I have to manually reboot the device before the changes become active.
• Setting the time with NTP doesn't work (same as on 655 BTW). It keeps 'syncrhonizing' forever...
• I received the 645 with very old 1.01 firmware. The modem itself told me that that's the latest.
  When I checked the Dutch website (Support / FTP), I got redirected to the Swedish FTP site where I finally found FW101B06, ie an old one!
  When I checked the German FTP site (WHY is this one structured complete different compared to the Swedish one?!?!?!?!?!), I found the FW102B11 one, which I'm currently using.
  I guess the average user would not have found that version, but returned the AP after a few weeks...

.
In the end, my 655 can't retire yet. Although it gives me in some areas of the house a connection speed of just 1MBit/sec, where the 645 still does around 20-40MBit/sec, page loading and downloading is, in many cases, still faster with the 655!

[FurryNutz]

Thank you 
Answers:

• I'm in Europe, the Netherlands to be exact.
• My internet connection is ADSL, using a Zyxel modem. Modem is bridged and connected to my LAN, consisting of several switches (Asus / D-Link). Both WLAN AP's (655 and 645) are connected as LAN devices (WLAN port is not used)

So are you using the 655 and 645 as APs only and not main Host routers?
Please, can you draw us a simple diagram of how what your set up looks like? ISP modem>host router><switches<>devices? something like that?
Preferred connection priority as follows: ISP Modem>Host router>network switches><Wired devices to switches including APs.
Are your 655 and 645 in close proximity? Are they set for different MANUAL WiFi channels? Say 655 on chl 1 and 645 on chl 11?
If your using the DLink routers as APs, please review this:
Turning a router into an AP.

Even thought technically turning routers into APs is feasible, sometimes it isn't the best thing. I have notice that my 645 is behaving a bit differently that expected. I notice I have to leave SPI enabled or for some reason all my network activity lights are constantly blinking even when there isn't any real data activity going on. I noticed this, this past weekend. I believe there are some designs with these next gen routers that might not seamlessly allow for them to work in AP mode. If your 645 won't work well for you, I would suggest that you get the DAP-1525 as a better alternative to the 645 as running the 645 in AP mode realistically isn't the best solution, your not using the 645's features in this way and officially, DLink doesn't support any router in this way. DAP model APs are designed to handle this operation better.

Answers:

• I already tried all of these options. None solved the problem, or don't work (see below).
• On the 655 any of these settings give me a working internet/LAN connection.
• My Zyxel modem is my DHCP server, so DHCP is disabled in both WLAN AP's.

Answers:

• I have a bunch of G and N devices, so I'm using the mixed G/N setting (Same setting as 655).
• Channel width is set to Auto on both AP's
• Manual / Autoscan gives me exact same results with 1.02. Manual setting solved some of the connection problems in 1.01 though.
• Security mode is WPA2/AES Only. Changing this setting doesn't help for the 645 problems.
  
• There are several (very weak according to InSSIDer) WLAN AP's in the area. In the 1.02 firmware the setting 20/40Mhz coexistence doesn't make a difference apart from the connection speed. I find the 150MBit connection much more stable in terms of throughput than the 300MBit.
  

.
In all cases, be aware that my 655 simply works (using firmware 1.11EU), but has some range problems which the 645 should solve. It does that, but also makes browsing the internet annoying...

Besides this problem, some things don't seem to work, but also don't really bother me:

• Guest zone doesn't work as I don't use the WAN connection. However there is some tickbox that (as I understand) should connect the guest with the normal network, however it doesn't...
• DNS relay tickbox doens't work. This should give me the IP adres of the AP instead of the DNS from the ADSL modem, but I always get the DNS list of the ADSL modem...
• Enabling QOS gives me weird results (slow LAN connections), but I never used that on the 655, so don't miss it either on the 645.
• When I change the output power no client can connect anymore to the 645 until I power down/up the AP.
• Some settings (can't remember which ones) don't take effect after saving. I have to manually reboot the device before the changes become active.
• Setting the time with NTP doesn't work (same as on 655 BTW). It keeps 'syncrhonizing' forever...
• I received the 645 with very old 1.01 firmware. The modem itself told me that that's the latest.
  When I checked the Dutch website (Support / FTP), I got redirected to the Swedish FTP site where I finally found FW101B06, ie an old one!
  When I checked the German FTP site (WHY is this one structured complete different compared to the Swedish one?!?!?!?!?!), I found the FW102B11 one, which I'm currently using.
  I guess the average user would not have found that version, but returned the AP after a few weeks...

.
In the end, my 655 can't retire yet. Although it gives me in some areas of the house a connection speed of just 1MBit/sec, where the 645 still does around 20-40MBit/sec, page loading and downloading is, in many cases, still faster with the 655!
[/quote][/list]

[Marsmars]

Yes, I'm running both the 655 and 645 as AP's, exactly configured as the link describes.
The 655 does this since 2007 without any problems...

The 645 was meant to replace the 655, but currently both are running with different ssid for testing purposes, one on the ground floor / front of the house / channel 1 and one on the second floor / back of the house / channel 11.

When using the same ssid, I get full coverage with both set to low power. Very nice.

I did some further testing:

• it seems the 645 has problems with dns prefetching, causing browsing to stall. According to the mighty internet this is a known problem for some routers.. Any idea if the 645 does indeed has problems with this?.
• sometimes a pc can't connect to the 645. No error is displayed, it simply keeps trying to connect. Manually switching to the 655 is instant. Some time later, manually switching back to the 645 is ok again.
• while using whatsapp on my mobile, I was suddenly unable to send a message. Just a few secs later I got an error stating invalid ssid key and a box to reenter the key. Very weird, but again while using the 645...

Regarding my network:
Isp modem - 655 - switch1
Isp modem - 655 - switch2 - 645

Switching the 655 and 645 gives the same results. The 645 is new. Rest of network was running since 2007.

[FurryNutz]

Curious if you see this issue if you change the 645 as an AP back into a HOST router, do you see the same problem?

[Marsmars]

Curious if you see this issue if you change the 645 as an AP back into a HOST router, do you see the same problem?

You mean using the WAN port, ie connect that port to my isp modem? Never done that  

Note:
I remember why: ADSL modem should be set to 'Bridge', but then I loose VOIP.
Some say that VOIP still works on this modem using the WAN backup function and some routing, but that's a bit too much to experiment...

BTW, I also seem to have streaming video issues using the Boxee Box, but also using an ATV and Airplay / Airplay mirroring. The video stream simply stalls or stutters...

[FurryNutz]

Are you wired or wireless when using the boxee?

[Marsmars]

Are you wired or wireless when using the boxee?

Wireless, as is the TV.

I'm now testing with same SSID (channels 1 and 11). I see stationairy devices starting their connection on the 645, and after a day some of them are suddenly connected to the 655 and stay there.

The connection problems are most noticeable on streaming clients with their buffer set to just a few seconds: frequent dropouts of music/video. If I set the buffer to to 20-30 seconds the connection problems become 'invisible'.

The 655 doesn'st show these problems: even a 1 second buffer results in smooth playing radio...

I see no errors whatsoever in the log of the 645.

I wonder whether these problems have anything to do with me using (as stated before) the 645 as AP, which is an unsupported 'mode' (or actually not even selectable) of this router...
I might just have to replace the 645 with a 'true' AP/Switch, or a router that can be configured as an AP.

[FurryNutz]

Curious if you see this issue if you change the 645 as an AP back into a HOST router, do you see the same problem?

Also do you have a neighbor, friend or family member you can take the 645 to there place and see if the problem follows?

[FurryNutz]

I would check the DAP-1525, same case foot print as the 645, however is a AP and bridge device. I don't believe it can relay though. The DAP-1360 and 1522 do relay.

[Marsmars]

I've done some xtra experiments
- WiFi using both the 645 and 655 (same SSID, different channels)
- Using only the 645
- Using only the 655

Currently using the last one, ie running my wireless entirely on the 655, and guess what: all complaints, both on the LAN side and the WiFi side are gone, so:
- No more browsing stalls
- No more download stalls
- No more 'unable to receive IP address' for LAN computers
- No more 'unable to connect' errors
- No more alarm clock problems (unable to play stream, no internet connection) --> that was the limit!!

The range and rate are better for the 645, but the 655 delivers the reliable connection, and thats more important.
I have no idea yet if I just keep this configuration and accept the 'slow' 20-30mbit connection on the second floor, or try another AP.

[FurryNutz]

Sounds like you figured it out. Thanks for the feed back.

[Marsmars]

Sounds like you figured it out. Thanks for the feed back.

And thank you for your help & ideas.

I'm still in doubt though whether I have a faulty unit, that the firmware has some nasty bugs, or that I'm using the router as AP, ie outside its specification. Due to VOIP I can't use the 645 as router.

[FurryNutz]

I would test out another 645 and see. Could be a bad unit.
IF the 645 doesn't work with your VOIP then maybe a different model DIR would.
You might change out the 645 and get into a DAP-1525 for WiFi if you can use a different host router.

Hope something works out for you. Good luck.