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[nestolea]

I use my DIR-857 to extend my network into the next floor. It is connected via Ethernet (in LAN Port 4) to my Internet router and it's configured as an additional access point according to the D-Link instructions.
Hardware Version: A1      Firmware Version: 1.01 (the latest available for Germany)

I would like to configure schedules to turn WLAN on and off and to define some time related network restrictions for the kids. But the router's time never is correct. It drifts several minutes every day and even more for every reboot.

In theory, this shouldn't be a problem, because that's what NTP is for, and the DIR-857 supports NTP. But when configured as an access point, NTP suddenly is no longer supported. At least, that's what the D-Link service told me. They stated that the DIR-857 has no Gateway when configured as an access point and therefore NTP won't work. (I don't understand why one can't configure a default gateway on the router when using it as access point. This can be configured on any networked device I have seen so far, from thermometers up to backup tape libraries...)

They only recommended to buy another D-Link device which can work only as access point and where I would be able to enter a Gateway....    :-$

But even if the missing default gateway should be the problem, I have some time servers in my home network and NTP doesn't work with them either. Even when I configure their IP addresses as NTP servers!

Very frustrating!   

Any suggestions how this could come to a happy end?

[FurryNutz]

Time can only be configured while using it as a main host router as it's dependent upon the WAN port connection to the ISP modem.

[nestolea]

NTP per se only requires a network connection, which is there - even when configured as access point.
I don't understand why it is implemented this way by D-Link. Unnecessary restrictions that decrease usefulness of the device, IMO.

[FurryNutz]

I understand the frustrations. I don't know why either however you do have to remember, most routers are not designed for working in AP mode or supported like this. I presume there are reasons why DLink does it like this. We'll probably never know why.

I did help someone over at a different forum where I came up with the idea of while a router is running in AP mode and since the NTP services are dependent upon the WAN connection, temporarily connect the WAN port to the ISP modem and let the router acquire the time. Then disconnect it. The only thing you'll have to do this again is when the router is reset or it looses power.

[nestolea]

This brings up an idea again, that I thought about some time ago already.
(I know - it's not supported...!)

Instead of connecting the DIR-857 with a LAN port to my primary router, could I somehow trick it into a working configuration for connecting it's WAN port to my primary router? The WAN port should be fast enough, my primary router currently only has 100Mbit/s. In theory, I know how a generic network device would be configured to do something like this (two different networks complete with routing and such). But I wasn't successful implementing this with the D-Link GUI yet...

If this was possible, it should resolve all my other problems at once!

[FurryNutz]

I think I tried this with my DIR-685 in AP mode and as along as you put the WAN port IP address the 857 gets from your main host router into the main host routers DMZ, the time should update correctly.

Let us know if that works.

[nestolea]

The router is in productive use, I will need to find a date for experimenting with it...

Up to this date I will have some time to think about it first.

You seem to imply with your suggestion that the DIR-857 itself gets its IP address via DHCP? Using this mechanism I would have to configure both of the routers and all clients into the same network, right? Will this work with the DIR-857 if it has "both network sides in the same network"?

Wouldn't it be better to put it's different network sides in separate networks? But then I will have to get routing working...

(Now that the discussion is drifting away, would it be a good idea to start a new topic?)

[FurryNutz]

The router is in productive use, I will need to find a date for experimenting with it...

Up to this date I will have some time to think about it first.

You seem to imply with your suggestion that the DIR-857 itself gets its IP address via DHCP? Using this mechanism I would have to configure both of the routers and all clients into the same network, right? Will this work with the DIR-857 if it has "both network sides in the same network"?
If you've changed the 857s IP address, say to 0.50 for AP mode, then no, you don't need to change anything. The wan port just needs a Public IP addressed path to gain a connection to the selected NTP server and it would be only for a short period of time until the time was set then you an disconnect it. I presume you could leave the WAN port connected as long as nothing else was using the IP address that you assigned to the 857's WA port and you kept it in the main host routers DMZ. I haven't tried this method however just thinking about it, it should work theoretically since the WAN port is always looking for an IP address which could be assigned on the main host router, give it .0.254. So on the main host router, you'd assign the WAN port .0.254 and on the 857 you'd assign the routers IP address of .0.50 for the LAN IP address. The DHCP server is still disabled on the 857.

Wouldn't it be better to put it's different network sides in separate networks? But then I will have to get routing working...

(Now that the discussion is drifting away, would it be a good idea to start a new topic?)

Up to you, your thread however this is related to what you started so your good.

[nestolea]

I am not sure, whether I do understand you correctly...

I currently understand something like this:


[---------]                  192.168.0.50
|         |---------------------------+
|         |                           |  |  |  |         LAN ports
|  Main |--                        [----------]
|Router |                          |  DIR-857 |
|         |--                        [----------]
|         |                               |              WAN port
|         |-------------------------------+
[---------]                  192.168.0.254


Do you really mean connecting both routers with two LAN cables? This will create a loop! (Despite of wasting nearly half of the available ports on both routers.)
How would the DIR-857 know to which adapter it has to route a network packet? They are both on the same logical network.

To get the nomination right:
- "IP address for AP mode" is the one configured with Setup --> Network Settings (the admin GUI address)?
- IP address WAN port is the one configured with Setup --> Internet --> Manual Internet Connection Setup?

[FurryNutz]

I am not sure, whether I do understand you correctly...

I currently understand something like this:


[---------]                  192.168.0.50
|         |---------------------------+
|         |                           |  |  |  |         LAN ports
|  Main   |--                        [----------]
|  Router |                          |  DIR-857 |
|         |--                        [----------]
|         |                               |              WAN port
|         |-------------------------------+
[---------]                  192.168.0.254
Yes, this should work to get NTP services if you use DMZ on the main host router.

Do you really mean connecting both routers with two LAN cables? This will create a loop! (Despite of wasting nearly half of the available ports on both routers.) This will not great a loop. This is only for getting NTP services to the 857 running in AP mode.
How would the DIR-857 know to which adapter it has to route a network packet? They are both on the same logical network.

To get the nomination right:
- "IP address for AP mode" is the one configured with Setup --> Network Settings (the admin GUI address)? Yes, this is for the Routers IP address, so your changing the default of 192.168.0.1 to 192.168.0.50.

- IP address WAN port is the one configured with Setup --> Internet --> Manual Internet Connection Setup? No configuration needed. Once you connect the WAN port to the LAN port of the main host router temporarily, Look at the Status/Device Info/WAN section. You should see a 192.168.0.something here. It should get a private IP address from the main host router. Input this IP address into the main host routers DMZ. You might have to power cycle the 857 once more so that the NTP services kick off and hopefully it should get the correct time. if it doesn't then you could temporarily connect the 857 in AP mode to the ISP modem and get NTP services.

[nestolea]

Hi FurryNutz,

I was nearly going to test the configuration you suggested. Then I realized that I currently do not have enough free ports on my main router...   

I would need to use two out of four ports for connecting the DIR-857!

Nevertheless, during the next few weeks I might be able to shut down one node and temporary free one additional port. But it will need some more patience until then...

[FurryNutz]

You only need to barrow one of the LAN Ports for a short period, just long enough for the 857 to acquire the NTP services while it boots to ready. Once thats done you can disconnect and reconnect the main device to the port.

[nestolea]

I would prefer this as a permanent construction. The time drifts several minutes every day and I don't want to exchange LAN cables for correcting the time every day or so...   

Further, a reboot is required/wanted for any configuration change. I would have to swap cables on any reboot... No, thanks!

[FurryNutz]

Then I recommend getting a switch on the main host router then you can move items from that router to the switch and free up a port or 2.

Good Luck.

[nestolea]

I finally found a solution! NTP is working, plus several other problems solved at once.
See my posting How to extend network without AP Mode for details.