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Author Topic: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie  (Read 10157 times)

doiremik

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How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« on: December 17, 2009, 01:43:01 AM »

Hi folks... good board and lots of help but couldnt find anything on this. I just bought a NAS 323 and 2 x 1TB WD hard drives. I want to go for Raid one as I lost some data last year and dont want the same to happen again. However on formatting for Raid 1 it asked me how much I wanted to use... and said the remainder would be treated as JBOD. I wasnt aware that I could have a raid and JBOD on the same setup. Is this true and is this recommended.

Thanks D
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fordem

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Re: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2009, 04:12:32 AM »

Yes - it is true.  Is it recommended - well - as they say - that's an whole 'nother question.

Let me back a bit - RAID1 is not a backup, as my signature says, it's about disk redundancy, not backup - so even if you use RAID1, you still need to back your data up.

On to your 'other' question - personally, the only two disk configurations supported by the DNS-323, that I consider 'useable' are standard volumes and RAID1.  The options are ...

Standard volumes - this gives you one volume per disk, no redundancy

JBOD (linear) - first, there are different definitions for JBOD and DLink, for what ever reason, has chosen to implement this configuration in what they call JBOD (linear) - you get a single volume which has the capacity of the two disks, the data is written to one disk and when that is filled, it will be written to the second - this is only useful if you have datasets that are larger than the capacity of a single disk (and if you do have databases exceeding the capacity of today's available drives, then I'd say you really should not have bought a consumer device.  The danger with this configuration is that if a drive fails, you lose access to ALL the data, even if the data is stored entirely on the remaining drive - that's right - if you store 500MB of data in a 2TB JBOD linear array, and the second drive, which has no data, fails - you lose access to the data - if not immediately, at the next reboot.  Think about it - is the added capacity worth the risk - personally I think NOT.

RAID

A RAID0 configuration supposedly allows for faster read/write access by eliminating the disk interface as the bottleneck - this works very well in situations where the disk interface IS the bottleneck, but on a NAS device, the bottleneck is, more often than not, either the network or the controller, and this device is no exception - a RAID0 configuration provides no performance gain, and when coupled with the fact that failure of either disk results in the immediate loss of ALL the data, personally I see no point in placing my data at unnecessary risk.

A RAID1 configuration mirrors all of the data on one disk to the other and allows continuous access to the data in the event of the failure of a single disk.

On this device, if you create a RAID array - either RAID1 or RAID0 - that does not utilise all of the available space, the unused space will be configured as a second volume - however - in the event of a disk failure, when you replace the failed disk, and the unit rebuilds the array (in the case of RAID1), it does not recreate the second volume, and the only way to fix this is to back up your data, delete & recreate the array and the JBOD and restore your data.

Now you have they why's & the wherefore's - you decide what's best for you - for me I'd say NO to JBOD and NO to RAID0
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RAID1 is for disk redundancy - NOT data backup - don't confuse the two.

doiremik

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Re: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2009, 07:55:38 AM »

Hi Fordem, firstly I must thank you for taking the time to write a full and comprehsive answer especially one that I can understand :-) So from what I gather I should use the entire available disk space as RAID 1 and have no JBOD on the NAS at all. This seems to be the best as if the hard drive fails and yes its happened 3 time to me in 10 years... I have a complete mirror image.

However you raised a few points that brings a few other questions to mind especailly over Raid 1 not being a backup. So if I have this correct.. if I delete files say accidentially on a Raid 1 setup they are gone... as they will be wiped from the second disk. So what I have is something that helps in a disk failure scenario.

Ok so heres the questions... I have a small network of 3 pc's. Should I use the NAS (as Raid 1) to back the data up each night from the 3 pc's or should I keep the data centrally on the Raid one and access it from each machine. I do some develeopment work and wanted to store my data centrally so it didnt mater what machine I access the files from... however with all the data stored on the NAS... it means I still dont have a backup. What would you recommend Fordem... thanks a million... D
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gunrunnerjohn

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Re: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2009, 08:34:47 AM »

Correct, if you delete a file on a RAID-1 (or RAID-5) array, it's really gone from all copies.

What I do for backup is do a complete backup of all data to another NAS, this happens to be a DNS-321, also running RAID-1.  I also have backups of the data on USB drives as well.
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Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Remember: Data you don't have two copies of is data you don't care about!
PS: RAID of any level is NOT a second copy.

doiremik

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Re: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2009, 09:43:09 AM »

LOL GunnerRunnerJohn... thats mad alright. But if thats the best practice... I can go for it. Maybe I can hook and external HD to the Nas through the USB Key and get the NAS to copy the most important files to it every night. What do you think. It definitely seems that I need another storage device for backups...

thanks D
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gunrunnerjohn

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Re: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2009, 11:42:55 AM »

Well, I don't think the stock DNS-323 will connect a USB drive, but there might be 3rd party extensions.

I just have Task Manager wake up my computer and run the backups in the middle of the night.
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Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Remember: Data you don't have two copies of is data you don't care about!
PS: RAID of any level is NOT a second copy.

hilaireg

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Re: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2009, 02:54:27 PM »

LOL GunnerRunnerJohn... thats mad alright. But if thats the best practice... I can go for it...

... then you'll find the following complete insanity  :)

BeyondCompare DNS323 #1 -> DNS323 #2 -> DNS343 #1 -> DNS343 #2 -> External PC USB HDD (2TB) 


Yes, the data I have on the units is that critical.  DNS323 #1 is under constant I/O and am on my 3rd member replacement.  I turn on DNS323 #2, DNS343 #1, and DNS343 #2 to perform the synchronization (as noted above) and then turn off these units - this is a weekly event at minimum (depends on how much change). 

I intend to eventually eliminate the DNS323's once D-Link Engineering addresses the remaining deficiencies in their ADS package - at which point, I'll be synch'ing DNS343 #1 (will become always on) to DNS343#2 (intermittent on).  The DNS343's contain additional archival data - quicker access than a tape restore.


... Maybe I can hook and external HD to the Nas through the USB Key and get the NAS to copy the most important files to it every night. What do you think. It definitely seems that I need another storage device for backups.

AFAIK, the USB port on the DNS323 is intended for a printer or UPS; that said, I would advise using an external USB HDD with a partition that is formatted using an operating system that you are most comfortable with - NTFS, FAT32, MacOS, Linux, etc.

Which means ... use the USB off a PC, not the DNS device.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 02:58:15 PM by hilaireg »
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gunrunnerjohn

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Re: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2009, 03:41:19 PM »

Actually, I do a similar thing.  My DNS-323 is strictly backup, and it gets updated periodically through the week from several systems.  Early Saturday morning, there is a run that synchronizes it with a DNS-321.  Manually, I also sync the backup data with a pair of USB drives.
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Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Remember: Data you don't have two copies of is data you don't care about!
PS: RAID of any level is NOT a second copy.

hilaireg

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Re: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2009, 05:17:59 PM »

You'd almost believe we suffer we're borderline paranoid schizophrenics.

 ;D
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gunrunnerjohn

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Re: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2009, 05:23:08 PM »

You'd almost believe we suffer we're borderline paranoid schizophrenics.

 ;D
No way, just REALLY careful with my data. :D  Did I mention that the one NAS is in the basement in a cinderblock enclosure so it should survive stuff like fires? ;)
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Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Remember: Data you don't have two copies of is data you don't care about!
PS: RAID of any level is NOT a second copy.

doiremik

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Re: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2009, 07:42:31 AM »

ah thanks All... sorry for the delay in getting back but I got stuck with a Format 94% error... thats mad. Then I went to rename the Volume_1 to something better and found you cant... but did manage to find a work around... then to top it all of... I wanted to partition the Raid 1 and the tech support said they didnt know if it could be done... Can I... oh please tell me I can partition this drive .. duh

thanks again for all the help and yes... I'm going to use the NAS as central storage for all my data, development, home etc but will buy a good external Harddrive and back up the essentail data at night. PS anyone recommend any good back up software...thanks D

pss...LOL this is only the start... I got a DIR 655 but though it was an ADSL Router also... aahhh now I see said the blind man. So I have more boxes on my desk than a closing down sale in a shoe shop. Doesnt seem there is to many ADSL 2, with Gigabit ports and is wireless. Linksys have one but I dont know what the story is on them...aahahahhh  bring back Windows 3.11 for workgroups ;-)
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gunrunnerjohn

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Re: How to Format my Nas - from a newbie
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2009, 08:07:06 AM »

WFWG 3.11, what a frightening thought!  :o :D
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Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Remember: Data you don't have two copies of is data you don't care about!
PS: RAID of any level is NOT a second copy.